Home > Archive >Rug Fools, windel et. al.
Tue, Jan 24th, 2006 09:45:39 AM
Topic: Rug Fools, windel et. al.

To say the finer points of rug identification are lost on the magpies and know-littles, who contribute daily to professor clown’s rug romper-room, would be an understatement at best.

The boners and gaffs professor price=clown, aka steve price, and his group make while trying to sound knowledgeable and expert about old rugs is legendary and, what's even worse, it's ongoing.

Here is a detail of a rug some unfortunate posted on clownland.com hoping to learn what exactly he has:

Fat chance he will learn anything worthwhile, as the modus operandi over there rarely supplies correct information to such queries -- well at least those dealing with any rug that is truly pre-synthetic period.

The mini-minds will not be able to assess it properly but they sure will not waste their words in trying.

Supposedly, one of the brighter bulbs on steev’s dried up Christmas Tree of a website is windel swann, although RK’s opinion of swindle, as he is known to many in rugdom, is on the same level as what we think about price – all talk, little if any walk.

So here is what windle has to say about this rug:
“You certainly have an interesting and attractive rug, Mark.

The hooked medallions and fantastic animals border are most commonly found in smaller sumak bags that are attributed to the Shahsavan in Northwest Persia and the Transcaucasus.

Some better and closer images might help us with the identification. From what I can see, however, the warps and selvedges look like ivory wool rather than cotton. Also, the shape of the knots (including the fact that they are longer on the warps than they are wide) leads me away from John’s tentative Shirvan attribution. It still could come from the Eastern Caucasus.

It’s most likely a village piece, but I don’t think anyone would call it Kurdish. I’ve seen a few other pile rugs and bags that use sumak designs.

It’s nice and I would like to correspond with you further about it. I have long had an interest in what may or may not be considered to be Shahsavan pile weaving.

Wendel Swan”

First off, swindle, this rug is a repro, probably made in Meshkin sometime post 1960.

RK knows you, professor clown and the rest of the peanut-gallery of posters in clownland.com are basically rug ignorants but really now, can’t you spot a repro that is as obvious as this?

You’d really be better off keeping your opinions to yourself, windel, as they are often immaterial or, as is the case here, way off the mark of reality.

We did, however, enjoy your “offer” to correspond with “mark” the owner of the rug but know you are doing this just probably to try and buy his rug from him.

All we can say to that is we hope he is smart enough to sell it to you. After all, swindle, if you are so rug challenged as to believe this rug is old, you deserve to own it, you dope.

Author: jc
email: jc@rugkazbah.com
Tue, Jan 24th, 2006 09:45:39 AM

As is always the case in clownland with "hot" topics, like "Mark's" Borjalu prayer rug, the discussion has degenerated into a squabble of squawking simpletons. This time it is centered on whether or not the rug is a Borjalu or a Fachralo.

Who but the rug challenged and worse could possibly care, as the rug is an obvious reproduction.

The inane, misplaced energy these fools -- granted head rug fools like steve price and windel swann have been silent lately -- are expending to "prove" their worthless points about the attribution of this rug is unfathomable. But what is even more tragic is the fact none of these mini-minds has yet to come to grips with the reality the rug is a fake. And apparently the head rug fools, price and swann, are still sitting on the fence of doubt about that as well.

RK feels sorry, in some regard, for "Mark" as he keeps trying to show his rugs are "genuine", since no-one has convincingly clued him into the facts his rugs are phony fake repros.

He would be far better served by helping him get his money back from the "dealer" who sold them to him.

Should any RK readers know "Mark", or care to write into clownland to tell him to contact us, we will help him return the rugs and get his money back, if he can prove to us the seller sold them as antique.

Short of that, and unless there are any new bombshells, RK is finished with this issue.

We are not, however, finished trying to convince professor steve price, a true rug ignorant if there ever was one, his efforts on the internet are so sub-standard, to say the least, that it is about time he ceased and desisted.

Author: jc
Sun, Jan 22nd, 2006 01:09:40 PM

Remember the expression "White men can't jump"?

Well, it does remind us of how steve price and his collection of bottom-of-the-barrel ruggies invariably prove they have no ability to ascertain rug reality from their own personal rug BS.

We did, this morning, have another look over there and yes, Robert, the Borjalu rug belonging to “Mark” is another new repro:

Here is what steve price, who is one white man who can jump mentally or physically, wrote upon first seeing it:
“Hi Mark:

It looks like a Bordjalou prayer rug, and a very nice one.

The design, borders, size, long pile, and the red wefts are all typical of Bordjalou prayer rugs.

The blue has a cobalt hue on my monitor, rather than a classical Caucasian blue-jeans blue. I assume that it just isn't accurately represented, and in the wool the blue is what I'd expect it to be.

Regards Steve Price”

RK has, with good reason, ridiculed professor steve price=clown here for years, all of our comments like those mentioned here being truthful and right on.

He is a rug idiot of major proportions and why he insists on proving it publicly every time he opens his mouth is beyond comprehension.

Imagine calling this obvious reproduction of a Borjalu prayer rug a “nice one” and then going on about the blue dye.

All RK can say is once again: get your ignorant butt of the net price, you boob.

Poor hapless “Mark” then wrote in the following:
“John - A comment and a question.

Your scholarship is most valuable to me and I'll give you an example of why that is so.

The books refered(sic) to as seminal by Ttek contributors, the Bennett, Nooter, Burns, Ellis books, are according to my checks not readily available.

I prefer to have my own library of reference material; I can get a Bennett vol. 1 for 400 dollars at Antiquarian Booksellers site.

I have just gotten Eiland's updated Oriental Carpets and the more scholarly Tribal and Village Rugs by Stone.

I guess a matrix of rugs by region and important authors would be handywhen figuring a book budget.

One question re. dating textiles: Are the characteristics of oxidation present in rugs indicative of age? I'd be interested in published material on visual indicators and the stages of chemical oxidation.

Thanks Mark”

Telling john howe how “valuable” his rug scholarship has been is both comical and pathetic. Howe’s scholarship, and that of steve price, silvermann, marvin amstey and the rest of the rug idiots who ply their ignorance and egos in the price’s rug romper room is about as real as Saddam’s nukes – nothing more than a figment of someone’s (usually their own) imagination.

Sad, truly sad, it is how “Mark” still believes his rugs are “antique” and anything other than the reproduction airport art they actually are.

To their credit other posters to price’s clownaroundotek.com website realize his rugs are fakes and have told him so.

Interestingly, one of them, Sue, wrote the following after expressing her opinion the rugs were new repros:
“I would put my 2 cents on both of your rugs having been designed by a Westerner guy who can't dance.

Someone who is barely a step or two ahead in understanding what his peer group will be looking for in rugs than they are.

Someone with no comprehension of traditional motif choreography. Someone who has read every word in his up to date rug book library, has a computer design program, and has access to dirt poor indigenous weavers and spinners, somewhere, who are trying to afford to feed and educate their children and are paid based on their weaving speed.

I don't mean to single you out for having the wool pulled over your eyes.

You have a lot of company. It's not too late to snap out of it, though. Sue”

Cute reply and while it might appear to be “not too late to snap out of it” for “Mark”, it surely is for steve price et. al.

However, in fact, we are sure it is for “Mark” as well since he protesteth too much that his rugs are antique, added to the fact he is clearly intellectually challenged enough not to be able to discern most of what he has read on clownland.com about his rugs (besides for the few posts stating they are repros) has little reality or truth to it.

Again, we can’t blame him for falling into the cesspool of ignorance steve price and company spews on the net but we can dun him for believing it in the first place and surely for continuing to do so.

Author: jc
Sat, Jan 21st, 2006 04:40:04 PM

RK.com imagines how steve price and his rug buddy, windle swann, could acknowledge reality:

Author: Jack Abramoff
Sat, Jan 21st, 2006 12:32:18 PM

Jack you meatball, signing multiple names does not add weight to your dimwitted opinions. Like there really is a "robert" you poltroon. I pop better rugs on ebay than you ever owned.


RK Replies:

You are such a weasel, listen up carefully:
1. We have never posted a message on this website as anyone other than RK. We don't need to and have made that clear enough, even a dunce like you should realize it.

2. There is a “Robert”, of this you can be sure. If you want to bet some of your money in the belief there isn't, we will be glad to take it from you.

3. And speaking of dim-wits, your comments are about as dull and droll as any ever posted here by other lesser minds of your stature, little man.

As for your "popping better rugs on EBAY than we have ever owned"? Don't make us, and every savvy RK.com reader, laugh any harder.

Coming from someone like you, dingo, who believes "Mark's" rug is old, that statement has about as much value as the rug collections in steve price, jerry silverman and the rest of clownland's closets. Or did you forget the old sneakers in the bottom of ours have more art value to them than any of the pieces those clowns, and we’re sure a fool like you also, treasure.

Go ahead, anonymouse, try 2 prove us wrong, if you dare. To say we are sure you can't is something we'd be glad to bet the farm on any day of the week.

Author: robert
email: andersonr100@hotmail.com
Sat, Jan 21st, 2006 09:37:32 AM

Mr. abramof should be aware that some synthetic dyes undergo significant fading with a quarter century.

So the rug made in the 1970s could exhibit this feature.

I think it's newer than that, possibly treated (perhaps by "washing" or photo-bleaching) to make it look older.

Interestingly, the "Bordjalu prayer" rug just posted by the same individual is clearly a brand new rug.

In fact, it looks like a typical "Jim Allen" rug.


RK Replies:

We have not paid a visit to clownland to see steve price and companies latest venture into rug idiocy but will take your word for it, Robert, that they are again going down that dumb to dumber black-hole of ignorance .

Interesting you should mention jim aka jimbo allen, as when we first saw the rug we harbored similar thoughts.

Surely he isn't the only source for such reproductions but he surely is a quite a noticeable one.

All said and done, rug poseur windel swann should be by now smart enough to spot a bogus rug like "Mark's", the very fact he can't is why we have ridiculed him here on RK.com once again.

So keep that sharp eye peeled Robert and congrats from RK for not only realizing it is newish repro but in writing in here with your opinion.

We will sometime later this weekend when we have a chance pay another visit to clownland and look at the other rug you mentioned but for now more interesting opportunities beckon.

Author: jc
Fri, Jan 20th, 2006 12:27:10 PM

We have now received some email from readers about this rug.

More agree with our position the rug is a newish 'repro' than not.

But honestly RK cares little about what others think, we have total faith in our conclusions and do not need the corroboration of others.

In our estimation, windel swann is just another poser who after 30 years or more of supposed “collecting” is still a novice and rug know-little.

To call him a rug-dope is surely warranted, at least from our position and contact with him.

He is not alone, as professor steve price and those who frequent his puddle of muck called a website for "collectors to connect" are in even in worse shape than windel when it comes to knowing anything besides the most obvious info about old rugs.

If windel or anyone else would like to take us on about this rug, our opinion of windel, or any other rug topic of significance we are here waiting.

The fact no one does proves in spades our point.

Plus to believe others don't write in here because they are afraid of us, or believe we will not play fairly, is as stupid and myopic as believing windel's comments mark's rug is "interesting" or "attractive".

It might be interesting and attractive to anyone who is not an expert, this we do not deny. But to anyone well schooled in genuinely old "Caucasian" rugs it is nothing more than a pile of fluffy wool.

And after 30, or is it 40, years of "collecting", even a poseur like swann should be able to realize this. The fact he can’t speaks volumes and more.

Author: jc
email: jc@rugkazbah.com
Fri, Jan 20th, 2006 09:05:20 AM

We just read through the postings in clownland about this rug.

So far the magpie chatterings have proven nothing and said very little of any consequence other than proving how little they know about anything rug related.

The consensus from what we read has it that this rug is circa 1900-1920.

Were that the case, RK is sure, there would be other examples like it and frankly we have never seen a pile rug that looks anything like this one.

Granted the hooked polygons in the field are not distinctive but the way they are juxtaposed is rather unusual. Plus RK finds the insipidly depicted critters in the border, as well as the layout of the minor and major borders, equally disturbing.

Regardless of windel swann's admiration for this rug, RK finds it to be a simplistic, garish, end of the line statement made to impress the naive and rug-ignorant. Surely no one with any expertise would fall for this amateurish attempt to make an old Caucasian Rug. Guess that's why windel likes it so much, huh?

Just a small hint to the mini-minds -- check out the selvedge and if you know anything about genuinely old rugs, even those from circa 1860-1880, we are sure you might then agree this rug is mucho newish and a ‘repro’.

So has spoken the "voice in the wind" and, by the way professor clown, calling RK a "voice in the wind" only emphasizes the fact you are a petty, pompous ignoramus.

We know you visit RK.com several times each day and we sincerely hope by doing so eventually you will learn enough to realize what rug fools you and the rest of your crew are.

Enjoy your ignorance, steve price, as RK has heard, but surely wouldn’t know from experience, it's supposed to be bliss.

Author: Jack Abramoff
Thu, Jan 19th, 2006 11:55:38 PM

Jack you look pretty dumb on this one. Fugitive purple in 1960 Mishkin? Ha! What planet are you from Boy. You dare to insult Wendell Swan and instead you insult yourself. Go back and read, "Steve and Richard - The gray areas are violet on the back, with some very faint violet coming through at some of the top areas. Synthetic dye, it seems certain. Analine, I guess." Be a good boy and apologise to Wendell. Then apolgise to everyone smarter than you, Dennis, Jimbo, Steve Price, etc...


RK Replies:

Listen up, anonymouse -- posting here first as Jim Hammond and now as someone from the news isn't cute, it's dumb as a rock, dingo.

If you are so sure professor clown and his minions are correct, why hide?

Are you such a panty-waisted fool that you think by using an anonymous IP address you are doing anything other than proving that?

Past your inabilities to present yourself as anything other than another rug fool, why do you believe a repro rug like this one couldn't or wouldn't have some old wool mixed in?

Plus the presence of ‘fugitive dyes’ in a rug doesn’t equate with that rug being old and there are many other dyes besides Fuschine that could give that signature.

But clearly facts like these are lost on mini-minds, yours included.

When RK said it could be a Meshkin, we were referring to an area of production.

This rug is not old, we are more than willing to bet some $$ on that.

Plus your putting any faith or confidence in any assessment of the colors, or their source, from "Mark" the owner, is as misplaced as thinking RK owes anyone an apology.

So next time you want to chime in here, aka mr jim hammond or abramoff, how about doing it like a man instead of an anonymouse?

And FYI this is the correct spelling of apologize, it’s not apologise.

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