Home > Archive >an unknown group of ottoman embroideries
email: lloydandy@hotmail.com
Wed, Jan 25th, 2006 11:02:32 AM
Topic: an unknown group of ottoman embroideries

I wonder if anyone else shares my disbelief at hali magazine devoting 12 pages to this supposedly "unknown group of ottoman textiles".

One has to be suspicious when any previously unknown group emerges from an unknown source.

When we find out the the ground composition and loom width are also previously unknown surely the alarm bells should start ringing.

The 16th and 17th centuries saw the production of some of the most beautiful and sophisticated textiles ever made. Looking at this poorly made and badly drawn group it is hard to believe they are anything but 21st century fakes with designs taken from books on Isnic tiles.

Yes they have natural dyes but these dyes are stll commonly used and readily available. The fact they have slight fading (though most of them are in mint condition) is hardly conclusive proof of their age as this could be achieved in a few weeks of middle eastern sunlight.

Should not the fact that many modern Uzbek reproduction suzanees and ottoman textiles for that matter are made on this yellow silk ground also raise suspicion?.

I would like to hazard a guess as to their provenance. They have been manufactured in Uzbekistan in the last two years and popped up in or around Istanbul.

If the oldest are pertaining to be 16th century carbon dating would be show at least if they have any age at all.

It seems strange that there are no estimated dates for any of these pieces just an argument that they are period.

This all brings back memories of last acor with the hitherto unknown group of turcoman embroidered kapanuks decorated with antique Turcoman jewellery which were by unanimous consent also fakes of Uzbek origin.

If theres one thing i have learnt over the years in relation to textiles it is this ; If it looks too good to be true it invariably is too good to be true .

Surely a little more investigation should have been done before Hali devoted 12 of its 155 pages to this highly dubious looking group of textiles.



RK Replies: First off let us thank you for your post and even more so for your having taken an anti-establishment position. Well, that is if anyone could possibly believe the rug establishment -- i.e. hali, icoc, acor, little lord franses, dodds, etc, etc -- is in any real terms an establishment.

From the top to the bottom rugdom is mired in nonsensical BS and there is little doubt this is why RK.com doesn't go with the flow on most issues this establishment delivers.

However, techno Ottoman, by posting here anonymously(we did notice your name is revealed by your email address but feel few others will) you limit the power and conviction of your argument. It would carry far more weight if you attached your name to it.

OK enough of RK's take on rug politics and let's talk briefly about the issue you raise.

RK doesn't bother to read hali, except for when we are somewhere where a recent issue is lying around and we have time on our hands.

We probably have not even thumbed thru an issue in 6 months or more so we have not seen the article and photos you reference.

However, we can imagine what you have deduced is correct.

If you or anyone else feels like scanning some of these embroideries and posting them in the photos for discussion area of the kazbah, or emailing them to us, we will be glad to look them over and post our comments here.

We are sure everyone knows RK has debunked many dubious subjects and positions that have been forwarded by this ‘establishment’ and gained acceptance in the rug world over the last 25 years.

The one most germane to these embroideries you have called attention to is the "kaitag" discovery and phenomena.

Speaking of a degenerate and mostly poorly made group of embroideries that have captured the attention and wallets in rugdom the kaitag is, for us, the winner hands down.

To say RK has never seen a "kaitag" we like would be an understatement. Who could possibly credence the ridiculous dating attached by the ‘establishment’ to these ghastly, end of the line needleworks?

It is truly amazing how gullible the rug world is. All hali has to do is publish a big spread of glossy photos and a text written by someone who is "respected" and "eminent" and the die is cast. Forget about the fact these rug world stars are usually quasi- or covert rug dealers on the side and their eminence and respect mostly trumped up by hali or some other publication or publicity effort hali has had their hand in. Plus there is always a “book” and by hyping the issue hali is prepping their share, which is by the way a large cut of the pie, of the sale of those books.

It’s then comical how the mokes, grandees, wanna-be important collectors and rug fools line up with cash and checkbook in hand to purchase with eyes wide shut these ‘treasures’.

So until we actually see some photos of these embroideries we can only lament the sorrowful state of affairs that exists when a magazine like hali that for many years has had a staff that has about as much real rug expertise and savvy as professor steve price and his clownland.com crew can exert so much influence.

And trust us on this one, we're in no hurry nor would we even consider driving down the block to see the latest issue of hali and these newly discovered ‘treasures’.

Author: jc
Wed, Jan 25th, 2006 11:02:32 AM

RK has now learned the author of the article is gerard pacquin.

Some years ago we have had some limited contact with pacquin and, frankly, were not impressed with him, his rug knowledge or anything he has ever done, before or since then, in the rug world.

We are not surprised, therefore, a poseur and wanna-be rug expurt like him would be stupid enough to believe these embroideries are important or even old and foolish enough to put those feelings in print.

Like a number of other alleged rug world ‘experts’ and cognoscenti, pacquin and the rest of his ilk belong over in clownland.com and the fact hali and it's inexperienced, basically rug-ignorant new editor, ben aka jimmy olsen evans (not to say schaeffer was much better), would allow this BS to pass as scholarship is just one more chip in hali's already well dinged cup and saucer tea set.

Don't you all think it is about time to clean house here?

What will it take to wake up rugdom to the fact not only does the emperor rarely have any clothes on but when he does those duds are invariably rags?

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