Home > Archive >Juicy Lucy Dribbles An acor Review
email: jc@rugkazbah.com
Wed, May 24th, 2006 05:53:33 PM
Topic: Juicy Lucy Dribbles An acor Review

Yesterday was a pretty interesting day on the net for ruggies.

Besides our pointing the brutal finger of reality at price=clown’s many failures to do anything other than vacillating between playing the strongman and crying the ad hominem blues, hali finally took their best shot at reviewing the acor dealer’s row fair.

Rumor has it a second installment is in the wings but after part one, that was long on wind but short on expertise, we wonder why they should even bother.

Perhaps last year or even earlier in this we’d have written more but, honestly, were there not a number of errors and their business as usual rose-colored glasses reportage on what was on offer, we’d not have even bothered.

However, we realize our readers come here for reality checks so, therefore, let’s set the record straight, albeit with very limited degree of commentary, most of which centers on an issue that is a major pet peeve of our -- overdating.

There were examples of this other than the two we chose but we felt these were the two most egregious -- the first of which was this provincial Ottoman embroidered bokche:

We are not surprised the seller dated his piece a century or so too early – that’s to be expected, not only from him but many other dealers as well.

Had the hali reviewer not fallen for this hook, line and sinker we’d never bother to write about the piece or it’s seriously exaggerated dating.

But since hali is supposedly dutied to provide expert coverage -- notice we say supposed to as nowadays they rarely accomplish that mission – we are not going to stand by and watch a dealer’s erroneous dating be reinforced by hali’s rug-ignorant reviewer and her neophyte editor.

We spoke to the owner and was told this was a cover for a turban and while his spiel sounded credible we still came away shaking our head and wondering why not just leave it as a bokche?

Let us mention the review was credited to a Lucy Upward who, we presume, has recently been bumped-up from some lower perch into that role.

We could care less about the musical chairs and employee shiftings hali has been engaging in since last summer, which began when schaeffer was retired from the editor’s swivel chair.

But we would suggest, since their present lineup shows little promise or expertise, their controllers to get rid of the entire team, including fat boy schaeffer, and woo marcuson back with whatever it would take to do that.

At least he knew something about rugs and textiles, a faculty schaeffer and company prove over and over, time and again, they hardly have a grip on.

The hali team is more adept than professor clown’s bunch but that’s not saying very much, now is it.

But we digress, so let’s return to the embroidery that was, incidentally, hanging on the stand of the affable senor zia bozoglu from Perugia, Italy.

In our estimation, it is nothing more than a nice 200 year old, at best, provincial bokche in quite outstanding nick (i.e. good condition). But circa 1700 it ain’t and you can bet the farm on that one, sweetpea.

It is unusual in design, fine in weave with pretty but not fabulous color and we genuinely liked it.

But circa 1700 is wishful thinking and we would place it sometime in the early part of the first quarter of the 19th century.

We do understand the dating game and are not really criticizing bozoglu for playing it and attempting to gild the lily.

We do place some heavy blame on hali for their inability to realize this and, worse, for continuing the charade.

Dealers will always over-date their goods – that’s a given in this field – but when the dating game is kited up past acceptable limits it deserves to be exposed.

While bozoglu and hali’s error is bad, it looks very innocent in comparison to the fantasy dating dodds almost got away with in what we have named the LACMA “bellini” rug debacle.

Calling what we have characterized as a dud of a rug mid-16th century alone earned dodds the dumb bastard of the year award, regardless of his other questionable and worse curatorial, fiduciary and commercial activities.

But we digress again so back to the hali review we go (sorry for these digressions but rugdom is so full of crapola it’s hard to stay on track).

The second and even more serious lapse of expertise came when juicy Lucy, as we have heard her referred to by some horny wannabe rug-selling suitors, swooned the light fantastic over this cutesy fragment:

Beam us up Scotty – there’s no life down here, at least none that can tell a circa 1800, at best, rug fragment from a circa 1600 one.

Yup, that’s the date the seller, one david lantz who is a former restorer and wannabe kelim expert from New York, hung on it.

And, right on time, Lucy girl once again fell for the bait. Too bad she doesn’t have a fat checkbook because had she we’re sure she’d have been the darlin’ of not only those who admired her alleged pulchritude.

RK has never laid eyes on her so we can’t confirm this but we did spy both bozoglu and lantz’s seriously over-dated pieces.

The reality lantz’s fragmento was made circa 1600 hasn’t the proverbial snowball chance in hell of being correct, regardless or not as to whether lantz sought a certificate of carbon-dating done by Dr. Georges Bonani of Zurich.

We believe in the process of C14 analysis, we just don’t believe the procedure is anything other than chancy for most oriental rugs. But we are not going to open, once again, that can of squiggling worms here and now.

Our audience knows we have high, no wait very high, standards -- our taste for rugs being epicurean – so we could not in good faith describe the goods on offer at the fair in the glowing terms Ms. Upward has.

That being the case we do agree, considering the level of goods floating through the marketplace and at auction lately, what was on offer in Boston was often on a far higher level and we congratulate most of the dealers for bringing many, more than worthwhile, examples for the acor attendees.

We know well how hard it is to find and keep excellent pieces around and we are sure had there not been two auctions timed to vacuum up any spare dollars the sound of ringing cash register bells would have been far more frequently heard.

We urge our readers to visit the hali website to get a dose of the acor dealer fair happy talk and the less than expert commentary rugdom’s very own Master’s voice Victrola, aka hali magazine, drones on 24/7 day and night.

Author: Harry Krishna
Wed, May 24th, 2006 05:53:33 PM

RK Replies:

Back in the virtual airline office again, harry?

We are getting closer and closer to your fat butt with each new post. Better keep looking over your shoulder, never know when RK's long arm will surprise you.

And by the way, this website is called RugKazbah and we came here to prove nothing but we have demonstrated, much to the consternation of dopes like you,dingo, we are the master of historic rugs. Too bad you can't compete on those grounds.

All that's left for you, and your fellow anon-a-mice, is inane innuendo and repetitious BS. Get real, hk, or get lost.

We're here to talk about rugs, what happens in the world of rugs, the good, the bad and, yes the ignorant people who populate this arena.

In your instance though you are ignorant and bad at anything other than acting like a pansy and since you clearly fall into no other rug related category -- what is your raison ‘detre for coming here, besides proving that over and over.

We'd advise taking that proverbial piss in your shoe, mr. krishna, but in your case, because those clown-shoes you so proudly wear are large enough to take a bath in, even for someone with as fat a head and butt as you carry around, we'd rather suggest taking your bath this morning in the yellow-stuff instead of the short libation we have suggested others of your ilk partake.

Oh,FYI, here is one of the several definitions of the word authoritative:

"Authoritative: showing that the person is used to being obeyed or expects to be obeyed"

You know, krishna, there's nothing worse than someone who indignantly poses as an expert and then is proven to be a fool.

In your case, once again, we're positive this sounds very familiar. 'Nuff said, mr.(or is it ms.)krishna, you chicken-shit mouse -- squeek squeek


Ah, self-righteous indignation. The penultimate refuge for the ethically bankrupt. Now you heve no place left to go except feigning piety.

As you so often say, silence is consent. Your "Press Pass" was fraudulent, and your promise of journalist-informer confidentiality was as empty as your head.

Oh, while you're up, go to a dictionary and learn the difference between authoritative and authoritarian. If you learn one new word a day, you'll be writing in English in no time at all.

Author: Anon-2.
Wed, May 24th, 2006 09:19:09 AM

RK Replies:

Answer the question? My, oh my, aren't you authoritative, especially for a pip-squeek too afraid of us to post in your own name.

But in the end, what's it to you, dingo?

Should you really wanna know, go ask the folks at acor who saw in when they denied RK entry to their lecture go-round.


Answer the question: Are you a member of the press, or was the press pass more bullshit and is the promise of press-informer privilege protection still more bullshit??

Author: Anon.
Wed, May 24th, 2006 08:02:34 AM

RK Replies:

Goodness, gracious more worn out litanies droning from a peanut-gallery habitue.

You must spend a lot of time in the airlines reservation office, don’t cha -- 'cause that we have traced your bogus IP address. Too afraid to post in your real name, huh.

We do know it's you again aka harry krishna,– waz’s’matter got tired of the Toronto IP?

Anyway, your lackluster questions are repetitious past the state of boredom, not even correct or to the point of proving anything but your inability to come up with better ones. Plus, they have already been answered in our posts to your idol professor clown.Come one, harry, we dare you to do better.


"...we will respect your privacy and, of course, never reveal who you are to anyone. We do have certain rights of confidentiality as a journalist, you know." This is the second time in ercent memory that you mention your position as a journalist (the other one said you tried to enter ACOR on a press pass). Do you now have a job in the press, or is this more Cassinspeak?

I don't know what Robert Anderson likes about T_urk_otek, but it might be that they don't spout bullshit like, "Turkmen had no camels", or "prayer rugs were only used for prayer".

Author: robert
email: andersonr100@hotmail.com
Tue, May 23rd, 2006 01:49:59 PM

Dear RK.com,

Like many collectors and wana be’s I choose to fly below the radar screen and preserve my anonymity.

Perhaps if we, the silent majority, were as brave and forthright as you, then rugdom would be a better place.

>>>Not perhaps but definitely and while the anonymity is your choice, personally, we find that to be a poor one in this instance.

Not only do we have to contend with deceit, deception and misinformation from dealers, but with exclusive, elitist attitudes from those who should otherwise be willing mentors, all of which discourages budding students and collectors.

Once, several years ago (pre-internet and pre-email) I wrote a letter to Hali expressing interest in the magazine and oriental rugs in general and seeking guidance to identify one rug in particular that I had recently collected.

Several weeks later I received a terse reply from a Daniel Shaffer, then an assistant editor, essentially stating that my rug was a worthless piece of trash and that I shouldn’t “bother” him anymore.

>>>While not wishing to impugn your integrity, we find this hard to believe as schaeffer is a boor but he does have some couth. If you retained his letter and will either scan it for us or send it to our address we will reward you with one of our soumak books.

Also we will only do this if you identify yourself to us and we will respect your privacy and, of course, never reveal who you are to anyone. We do have certain rights of confidentiality as a journalist, you know.

He just as easily could have gently pointed me in the right direction, suggesting some reference books or the like.

The same goes for most rug “clubs”, which amount to little more than ad hoc groups of generally egotistical snobs.

That said, and at the risk of incurring your displeasure, I must say that do like the **** (ed. clownland) website. (this statement should be enough to convince your readers that I am not a mouthpiece for RK.com!!!).

Here's an easy one for you: Please tell us in many words as you choose to use what you "like" about professor clown's sandbox?

Yes, I realize that the ****ers sometimes disseminate misinformation, which is certainly not a good thing, and that their knowledge and “eye” is far inferior to yours.

Puhleeze, Robert, saying that is an insult. We have no eye, we have knowledge, experience and expertise.

Eyes are for neophytes -- so while we need not blow our Philharmonic kazoo to anyone, our actions and accomplishments speak for us. At the same time, we abhor when anyone tells us we have a good "eye" or compares the likes of price, howe, silverman, amstey, etc with us, even to say we are far superior.

When measuring your shoe size do you use the Empire State building for reference?

But what are the options?

If you are hungry would you grab at a piece of urine-soaked bread (a great metaphor from "Last Exit to Brooklyn") you found in the gutter, unless you were terribly desperate?

Are you that desperate, if so, why? What about spending some time with the myriad of excellent books on rugs?

We are sure there are many, many whose covers you've yet to crack, right?

I predict that within a generation, rugdom’s many internal problems could well bring its own destruction, but hope to God that I am wrong because it would dishonor the very art we profess to love.

Again, we beg to differ. Remember, it is always darkest before the dawn and as long as we are around the future will hold promise -- you can bet on that, baby, big time and at long odds.

Author: Cevat Kanig
Tue, May 23rd, 2006 11:04:38 AM

RK Replies: Yawn, what else is new in your little world, pipsqueek, then you trying to play way above your pathetically minute abilities.

Are we finally rid of you?

Please, don't answer, it was rhetoric...


Hi jack, You are a Vulgar Person has no respect to others but only himself, consider himself an authority but a foolish idiot that can’t see the bare truth, participating the places that are unwelcome, Jack, this is the truth NO BODY LIKES YOU! Why don’t you want to understand it? I, my self just having fun researching the stories and that’s all, I have a life to live and not after a name that won’t change anything, jacka**!

Author: Cevat Kanig
Tue, May 23rd, 2006 09:59:41 AM

RK Replies:

You have now, once again, outworn your worn out welcome here, cevat.

Enjoy playing with yourself and professor clown and company. You are clearly so inferior you could not even carry a raquet to our court, let alone handle our serve.

You are a foolish, little nobody, whose wish and great desire would be to be one tenth of the man we are.

You are a poor, less than ordinary, slob, like price and most of the other rug cretins who post there.


Hi Jack, You are the bad boy of the rugdom, that’s why no body take your picture, actually you are accidentally appeared in the picture that I took in Acor and published it the site that you are unwelcome, you are jealous because nobody respect you and take your picture because you are the bad Boy! No body wants to play with you cause you are BAD! Below is your picture at the right with gray hair, sticking his nose everywhere. http://members.cox.net/ckanig/acor1.jpg

Author: robert
email: andersonr100@hotmail.com
Tue, May 23rd, 2006 05:51:36 AM

RK Replies

Yes, of course Robert, hali was better under little lord franses and pin-head. In fact, we were, at the time of hali's inception, offered the "job" of being the American representative by franses, as we were on big "speaks" back then. WE declined, dodds was then offered the position and the rest is part of the untold history we will some day make public.

By the way, our calling pinner, pin-head, is part of that history and we are sure when the facts are known to all many will agree with our estimation of robert and his sorrowful double life in rugdom.

We are sorry to titillate you and others with such remarks but we recently decided time has come to take off the kid-gloves and no longer will we overlook or touch lightly those who have in the past wronged us or those who continue to do so presently.

But back to your comments. Regardless of hali, and their parent organization Centaur Communications, desires to, as you say, make it a glitzy, vapid fashion rag with glossy ads for new carpets and photos of rug world airheads with those insipid plastic cups of jug wine in their mittens they will never succeed.

Rugdom is far to small to support a “people” magazine style publication and who else would care to see a photo like this:

looking as they are: peter hoffscheister a self-righteous thief and mike craycraft a clod and clown or this:

ms muffins, aka marla mallet, stuffing her face and ian sunderholm of jozan, a red-faced rug nobody

In fact who else would publish such photos? Granted the second photo has not graced hali’s parting shots(what a mis-nomer) but many other equally ludicrous ones, as you know, surely have.

And we would not argue marcuson did a far better job than schaeffer and evans ever will.

Price and illusions aside, the main point is the lack of the staff's ability to even walk in the footsteps of hali past, let alone forge new ones.

Centaur, we are sure, will, like all the former owners, rid themselves of hali, both for the reasons you mention and the most significant one for them – it doesn’t produce much revenue and that will be the final arbiter of when the grim reaper comes for hali.

As far as we are concerned that day is long over due and we are tired of hearing ruggies sing hali’s praises or their belief hali has helped rugdom.

That idea, perhaps, is the most ridiculous of all for without hali editorial prejudice and airhead views, their agenda driven praise advertisers and ignore or damn all others, as well as the dumb as a flat tire plugging of a fool like pacquin and his ‘discovery” of those insipid Ottoman embroideries or their complete disregard of dodds’s disgraceful sales practices and irresponsible ‘curatorial’ activities, RK knows rugdom would be on far more solid ground.

One last comment, Robert, we would appreciate it if you would identify yourself as we are sick and tired of hearing you are our invention or our shill.

So thanks for your comments and considering our request.


In my humble opinion the quality of Hali continues to decline, and it appears well on its way to becoming a glossy, glitzy fashion mag and gossip rag rather than the high quality academic (or at least pseudo-academic) journal that it was originally intended to be and still pretends to be.

While RK may have had disagreements with Michael Frances and the late Robert Pinner, I think that even RK would agree that the quality was vastly better when they were at the helm.

For that matter, even AM put together a much better product.

Heck, even the quality of the advertisements has declined recently!

Taken together, neither the high price, nor the continuing “elitist” illusions of the magazine seems justified.

Author: jc
Mon, May 22nd, 2006 06:11:36 AM

We have just traced sakhi mohmod's post (IP and can definitively state it originated from a computer located at Centaur Communications in London, England.

For those of you who don't know, Centaur is the parent organization of hali.

If they, any of their staff, or anyone at hali are displeased with our opinions and reportage about the magazine we'd appreciate their having the gumption and courage to post here in their own name.

After all affecting a puny disguise, like proverbial camel sticking its head in a sand dune and believing the rest of the body is invisible, is rather dumb, now ain't it?

Author: Sakhi Mohmod
email: toitoi2u@yahoo.com
Mon, May 22nd, 2006 04:18:56 AM

RK Replies:

What you know about RK is obviously as reality based as your 'name'.

We are sure the fact the only anti-RK posts are made by anonymice like you, mohmod, who are too afraid to stand up to us without affecting a disguise, negates them big time.

Such punk'd anonymity holds little water in our book or in that of our more savvy readership.

The magazine you refer to is a charade, its staff rug challenged at best and completely lost at the worst.

RK's dislike, well disgust might be better, of their activities and pseudo-control of this art arena is the reason we have presently, and in the past, poked fun, criticized and yes, rebuked them.

They surely deserve everything and more than what we have stated.

Plus the fact their glossy pages provide little factual information about our area (historic Near Eastern non-urban, clan weavings, which was let's remember their original raison d'etre), adds fuel our the bonfire.

The magazine has morphed itself into a creature of no particular stripe purely to try and broaden its ever shrinking subscriber base.

It is now full of adverts for new, commercially produced floor coverings (many of which are blatant copies – and not very goods ones at that -- of the rugs it formerly, and often succeeded, in trying to cover), articles concerned with other subjects like pre-Columbian and American Indian weavings (both of which we should remark interest us greatly but should not be the focus of a hali, well at least not in our estimation) and cutesy photo op pages of rug world grandees with plastic cups of cheap wine in their mitts.

Compared to earlier incarnations, where hali is now can only be liked to a ship mired in the Sargasso Sea.

And the captain of the enterprise fatboy schaeffer and his first mate benny evans? Both of them couldn't be cabin boys on our yacht.

Clearly if you knew enough to realize this for yourself you'd be in a mosque praying for salvation, sakhi, and surely not coming here pretending to be the saviour incarnate defender of the faith.

As for the rest of your crapola characterization of RK? That, too, is as factual as believing hali is A-OK and we are only blowing a kazoo, instead of the full horn section of the London Philharmonic of truth our position has proven to demonstrate.

Your prose reminds us of al markupsome's, their former disgraced editor, verbiage and style.

Are you he or just a wannebe plebe trying to make a mark?


you really are a pathetic venomous little shit arent you. Has your psychologist given you an explanation for your built up frustration and anger which seems constantly geared towards a magazine and their staff? And who made you any authority on carpets ?? I seem to recall that while you were prancing around ACOR, people were continually turning their back on you and hoping you would walk on by. You're a virgin arent you... thats what it must be. You certainly look like you are...

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