Home > Archive >icoc Istanbul
email: jc@rugkazbah.com
Sat, Apr 21st, 2007 07:18:22 PM
Topic: icoc Istanbul

Well, rugfans, it's a little less than a month until the icoc Istanbul extravaganza will open its doors.

RK has heard some quite interesting behind-the-scenes tidbits but, since we always protect our sources, we are not at liberty to divulge what we have learned.

We will say one thing to those of you who do brave the take-off-your-shoes airport shuffle and chance a full blown attack on Iran might erupt during the festivities: be sure to sign up and show up for the sessions on "Scientific and Technical Analysis".

As many of you know, RK has always championed structural analysis as the most important single tool we have to identify a weaving. Plus, our founding the Weaving Art Museum was, and still is, based on our plan to fund forensic scientists to analyze the most significant and important historical weavings now known.

Sadly, most of the energy and cash a few rug aficionados have spent in trying to do, what we know we can do better, has resulted in nary one milestone or concrete new paradigm.

Of course, we are speaking about C14 dating and the belief held in some corners of rugdom of its prime importance.

Readers know RK is far less certain C14 dating is anything other than a high-class charade to help certain dealers sell pieces to gullible collectors.

However, our tip to attend those sessions has nothing to do with C14 and, while we wish we could tell all, we are prevented by our promises to our sources.

So, should you decide to attend, make sure you get up early and not miss any of the presenters in that category, as we are sure that’s when the most interesting ones will be programmed.

Author: Doug Feinmann
Sat, Apr 21st, 2007 09:29:52 AM

You are right, jack. perhaps for the first time. After all, everyone knows YOU are the anony-mouse who posts as "Fred from L.A." Anyhoo, in other matters.... Reading anything on this website IS the virtual equivalent of eating poop as this site is virtual shit. I suggest, jc, that while we might be latent, in this matter you may be the real deal? It is true. Many of us here have been checkıng in to see you munch down on your turd sandwiches for quite some time now and have all caught a good wiff of the stink patte emanating from between those buns. WE ARE ALL SHIT EATERS so let's all clink glasses of urine and be we'll be sure to leave the undigested peanut in the centre of the log for jack.

Author: sewerkazbah
Sat, Apr 21st, 2007 02:45:08 AM

RK Replies: You sure talk big for a puny, scared, toiletmouthed weasel.

We'll look forward to your continuing efforts which have only proved the above - you've done nothing else.


Don't get your panties in a bunch trying to find out who we are, jackie. Just assume we are evryone. Your threats are as worthless as the rot between your ears. Show down on some more fecal kebab, fruity.

Author: toilet kazbah
Tue, Apr 17th, 2007 11:54:44 AM

RK Replies: Big-mouth, why bother to post as "fred from LA" when you are using the same IP address for this post as well? Who are you trying to fool, your shadow. Yes, that shadow, the one you are afraid of, right?

And while your pondering that one; remember, num-nutz, he who laughs last laughs best and your time for exposure is quickly approaching, clown.


By the way, it is called wifi, dipshit. I can use my computer anywhere in the world and if you try to block me all I need to do is click a button. You might want to find a rubber glove big enough for your head before you stick it any further up your ass.

Author: Fred from LA
Tue, Apr 17th, 2007 11:50:44 AM

The hypocricy is overflowing from your toilet kazbah. As if posting bullshit and emailing under fake names isn't your own favored modus operandi! How do you not pass out from your own stench?

Author: toiletkazbah
Mon, Apr 16th, 2007 01:10:50 PM

RK Replies:

Oh, man, aren't you superman. Coming to defend the defenseless, huh?

Well, mighty mouse, for starters why don't you swallow a bit of your own medicine and post in your own name?

You're pretty brave using someone else's computer in Turkey, wadda ya gonna do when you get back to your own crib? Go to the nearest Kinko's to use their computer?

Here's a suggestion, get lost in cyberspace and do the world a favor.


From now on, monkey, any hate-fılled turd you fling from this sewer will be hurled back wıth a spoonful of the truth. You are a sıck boy and are in serious need of much medicine. Hope it doesn't burn your throat on the way down as much as the vomit you constantly up-chuck into thıs toilet of yours must.

Author: toiletkazbah
Mon, Apr 16th, 2007 01:02:53 PM

Don't even try to pretend to be shocked and disgusted at the mention of hookers, rubber gloves and fecal fantasy. Really, jc! These are your only areas of any expertise and everyone who knows you knows it to be true.

Author: toiletkazbah Mon, Apr 16th, 2007 01:00:01 PM

Posting bullshit about dead people who can no longer defend themselves is a bit chıckenshit too, don't you thınk, jack CassIN? You cowardly hypocrite.

Author: rugkazbah: Where Anything Goes
Sun, Apr 15th, 2007 04:02:49 PM

RK Replies:

Need we say more about these chicken-shit fools who believe posting garbage, as shown below, does anything other than demonstrate a distinct inability to do anything else?

Well, it does do one more thing: Since we have never written anything concerning the "subjects" this poster seems to be preoccupied with, we can all therefore assume the fantasies expressed are ones he not only thought-up but apparently is quite familiar with.


Wow! Looks like everything DOES go on rugkazbah. Who would have thought you to have such a sordid social lıfe, jc? We always took you for the rubber-gloves jerkıng type. Hello: My name is Jack Cassin. I am director of WAMRI and one of the leading experts on the subject of German shit porn (Kaviar) in North America. My extensive traveling in Germany (especially in the Stuttgart area), love of the art of porn, and passion for rubbing myself with hot man-poop has translated into one of the finest collections of scatological pornography on the planet. I invite all interested in participating in a fecal foray to contact me. I also conduct monthly cheese and urine tasting parties. You might also want to visit my rugkazbah. I consider myself one of the leading authorities on antique textiles. Ever wipe your ass with a 2000 year old Roman linen or Han Chinese silk? I do regularly. Dress me in my mommy's panties and shit on my face. Have I got a tongue for your butt!

Author: Suat Capas-sude Old rugs & antique textiles
email: suat@sude-antiques.com
Sat, Apr 14th, 2007 05:52:58 AM

RK Replies:

Hello Suat:

It is clear cole doesn't know anything about kelims and your post substantiates our claim.

Your Saph is an exceptional one and if you email photos of it to us, we will be glad to post them here for all to see.

Plus, we would like to see the entire piece and not just a thumbnail detail photo.

We are always glad to discuss antique rugs and sense you are, too.

Enjoy the icoc Istanbul.


Dear Sir My name is Suat Capas and I am the owner of SUDE. I have also seen the writing at Hali.com about me. I am grateful for the writing about me but I have also recognized that Mr. Cole called my piece is Sivas. Actually its a Karapinar Saff...but when he walked in to my gallery for the first time we were lookıng at several kılıms on dısplay. There was a Sıvas below thıs Karapınar. When he returned again later I confirmed to hım that the kılım he photographed was a Karapınar but apparently ın hıs wrıtıng he confused ıt with the Sıvas kilim hanging below. Perhaps I contrıbuted to the confusion during the very busy moments of hıs vısıt because I mentıoned both pieces. Thus any error may have been my own. Thank you for your kınd attention. Suat Capas

Author: jc
Fri, Apr 13th, 2007 04:59:52 PM

Today's view of the hali website brought us an Istanbul icoc "preview", written by tom cole.

Mr cole bills himself as a "family oriented" rug dealer and a contributor to hali. Bully for his two claims to fame. However, there are a number of stories floating around to suggest mr cole seriously needs some lessons in honesty and integrity, forget about rug studies.

These minor issues aside cole, like most of those who write for hali, has a penchant for only writing about subjects and rug personalities that fit the hali agenda, not to mention their own as well.

Worse yet are the slanted interpretations and one-hand-feeds-the-other orientations cole and other use to get the talking points hali wants to see promoted to its often naïve readers.

Witness this sentence:

"Just around the corner, Yavuz Oran (Silk Road, 165 Arasta Bazaar) has also mounted an impressive display of 18th-19th century Anatolian kilims. Not many people know Yavuz as he is not a regular attendee at any of the conferences or shows in Europe or the USA, but he has a long history in the business and a long association with early collectors of this material, including those who provided material for Caroline McCoy Jones to purchase on behalf of the DeYoung Museum in San Francisco.(emphasis added, ed.)

Apparently cole knows as little about the who and the how of the Jones Collection, as he does about historic Anatolian Kelims.

Unlike cole, RK knows the all here and it's about time the reality of the fact all the kelims of any note in the Jones Collection came from only one source: the former collection Gary Muse assembled.

Apparently, when the DeYoung Museum's carpet and textile department was run by ms cathrine, aka flying penis, cootner she tried to float the myth the kelim collection was acquired from various sources and that Muse found the examples in his collection in a variety of places and countries.

Complete hogwash, as besides one or two London auction buys, all the remaining pieces came from Turkey, from suppliers like the one cole mentions.

Frankly, RK is a bit surprised cole, or anyone else, would bother to write about kelims because this area of the market is about as flat as Tiny Tim's chest.

It is no secret RK is a collector of historic slit-tapestry (kelim) and believes, whole-heartedly, they are very important and significant. However, such examples are incredibly rare; this fact being, most probably, why most collectors are completely disinterested in acquiring the less than stellar examples that often appear on the market.

From the pictures cole used to pepper his preview the best piece, at least in our opinion and one which appears deserving of serious collector attention, is this detail of a saph:

As poor as cole’s business and friendship ethics have at time been, so were his organizational skills in ascribing this kelim to the correct dealer who is showing it in Istanbul.

Here’s the caption:

”Sivas kilim saf. Yavuz”

In his preview cole mentions two dealers who are mounting kelim exhibitions: Yavuz Oran and Suat Çapas. He tells readers:

“Suat Çapas of Sude Gallery (1001 Direk Meydani, Iletisim Han 7/2) has already opened his long-planned exhibit of Anatolian kilims…”(and) “…Just around the corner, Yavuz Oran (Silk Road, 165 Arasta Bazaar) has also mounted an impressive display of 18th-19th century Anatolian kilims.”

However, when it came to describing examples these dealers are showing cole states “Suat’s…centrepiece of his presentation, for me, is a beautifully coloured saf from the Sivas region, of which there are apparently only two other known examples, including one in the Vok Collection.”

Clearly, this saph comes from Suat Çapas, and not Yavuz Oran’s gallery, but what more to expect from someone like cole who knows as little about kelim as he does about many other areas he believe he can show his supposed expertise.

RK realizes few people are really qualified to write about historic rugs and, while we talking ostensibly about cole here, there are many others who are as seeing eye dog needy as he is.

Lord knows, lately hali’s pages are filled more and more with rug posers, wanna-be rug experts and cole is, in our estimation, just one more face in the crowd.

Two cents a word is what hali used to pay its off-staff writers and we say: Even that paltry sum is too much when it comes to a correspondent like cole, regardless of the fact he claims to be a squeaky clean “family oriented” rug dealer.

Oh, and by the way, RK seriously doubts the Sivas designation. We're pretty positive this is not cole's error but that of the owner. However, it is also clear to us on his own cole wouldn't know where to provenance it, or even suspect Sivas is incorrect.

Author: jc
Thu, Apr 5th, 2007 10:20:36 AM

Recently, the full "academic" program for the conference has been released to the public.

RK is now free to highlight what we feel will be one of the most interesting, if not the most interesting, papers that will be presented in Istanbul:

Session 12: Technical Investigations, Swissôtel Bosphorus – Geneva Room
Saturday, April 21
12:10 – 12:35 - Mark Gilberg - Authenticating an Unknown Anatolian Carpet at LACMA

We highly suggest anyone interested how science can be applied to Oriental Carpet Studies attend. Dr Gilbberg's paper should be an eye-opener for many who still believe the old myths and fallacies about, not only certain rugs, but about the entire failure of rug scholarship to establish any positive parameters to judge the importance of historic oriental rugs.

So sign up early as we are sure this talk will be a highly subscribed and standing room only.

Author: Mirak Nahk
Thu, Mar 29th, 2007 08:37:56 AM

RK Replies:

The ability to discern the literal from the figural is a learned skill. But, like all skills, some people are better performers than others.

Clearly, in your case anonymouse, your abilities in that arena are piss-poor, as they most likely are in others as well.

What is worse, however, is your belief you actually know the difference. Sorry, charlie, you don't.

Plus, of course, the stupidity in believing anyone, besides those like yourself who are so threatened by RugKazbah.com, would credence what you write is equally fictitious.

So go to your room, little man, sit in the corner with your dunce-cap on your noggin and maybe, if your lucky, we'll let you go play with your buddies in professor clown's rug sand-box.

Tsk, Tsk, loser......


He's digging his own grave? What the hell does that mean? Have you found a way to sprinkle poison on his keyboard from a distance?

I'm wearing latex gloves while I type this, so I'm not afraid. Ha, ha, ha. You are such a flaming asshole.

Author: jc
Tue, Mar 27th, 2007 04:00:43 PM

We have also heard space remains unfilled for the dealers fair.

So for any of you budding rug-dealers we'd suggest you contact them quickly to secure a slot to sell your wares under the shadows of the great Mosques and Minarets of 'Stanbul.

Author: Karim Kahn
Mon, Mar 26th, 2007 12:32:43 PM

RK Replies, Hey dingo, aka Karim:

First off, no-one kicked RK out of anywhere, so get that straight.

Plus the fact the organizers of acor did not want RK present speaks miles in favor of the stupidity, fear and paranoia those folks, and many others, have when they see RK coming down the hall.

As for the rest of your woe-begotten mis-understandings? We'll just let them, too, fly by.

Why don't you pull yourself up on your training wheels and face the fact you, too, are a scared little ruggie -- so scared, in fact, you need to hide behind a anonymouse tag and IP address.

We're here, fool, and will be glad to give you a lesson or two -- but forget about rugs, karim, you need some others just to "get yer mind right, Luke". Because like Paul Newman, in "Cool Hand Luke" (the source of that quote) you're doing nothing but digging your own grave, dingo.


I see the carpet wallah is up to his old tricks, criticising ICOC and the people who make a serious effort to advance rug studies in a civilized manner amd suggesting that he deserves some sort of credit for his supposedly original and innovative support of structural analysis and his sceptisism of C-14 dating. My favorite memory of the last ICOC was seeing Jack being kicked out of the front doors on his bony ass. Lets hope we get to see him bite dust again, should he try to gate crash again.

Home   Buy/Sell at the Kazbah   Terms Of Service