Home > Rug, Kelim, Soumak, Textile Post Archive >The Even Bigger Fool Theory, Part 2
Author:jc
email: jc@rugkazbah.com
Fri, Jul 3rd, 2009 05:55:33 PM
Topic: The Even Bigger Fool Theory, Part 2

The Even Bigger Fool Theory, Part 2

Recently we finally heard the alleged true and unexpurgated tale of this rug:


lot 92, grogan rug auction Jan 12, 2009
sold for $32,500

This rug, prior to its auction at grogan’s, appeared in an out of the way New England* antique auction(*actually the sale was in Pennsylvania) where it sold for, as we have been told, $10,000. It was bought by a small-time rug “dealer” from New England who was “partnering” it with a “collector” who, again as we have heard it, paid for it in the sale under the proviso that he could buy it or if that was not his interest share the proceeds of a subsequent sale with the “dealer”.

We first heard about this rug, and were shown a picture, just after it sold in that out of the way antique auction. Since then we have followed it and the unfolding story, which we recount here.

Frankly we find this long rug to be mediocre on all levels – it is furniture, not fine art and anyone who thinks differently is, in our opinion, greatly mistaken.

But its merits, or lack of them, are not the reason we are discussing it. Rather we are commenting on the, typical for rugDUMB, rampant stupidity of this rug’s history. And we feel compelled to tell its story to demonstrate, once more, the validity of our highly derogatory vision of rugDUMB and the morons, dolts, poseurs and shitheads who rotate in this universe.

As it turns out, the money man "collector" who put up the $10,000 to buy did not want to keep it, so the”dealer” put it into grogans auction where it sold for $32,500. Nice profit for the “dealer” and the money man "collector" but the story does not end there – had it RK would not be discussing it.

To continue: a certain rug dealer from New York City bought it at grogans with two “partners”, who were European dealers.

After the sale at grogans the two European dealer "partners", as we have heard it, EACH accepted $20,000 as “commission”, from the dealer in NY and he “held” the rug.

Soon thereafter, the dealer from NY sold the rug for $125,000 to a “customer”--again for a nice profit.

So what’s wrong with this picture?

Well if one can’t recognize a rug of this ilk is basically furniture and not fine art, and it is overpriced even at $32,500, let alone $72,500 or the absurd, thieving, $125,000 price price level then you should get a reality check and do it quick.

Here is a far superior, in every respect, example of the type:

page 81, Oriental Rugs from Atlantic Collections, 1995

It is dated circa 1800 in that catalog, which is something we would do not credence as we would have dated it circa 1825. RK does not feel this rug, or any of the others of the “type”, is that old but we surely will grant this one is older and far, far better than the one sold at grogans.

We’ll ask our readers to examine the photos and judge for yourselves. But we will add our belief that this “type” of rug is once again nothing but a pastiche and workshop invention.

Hands down the Atlantic Collection example is far better articulated and conceived than the grogan but even that one, which is in our opinion the “best of the type”, falls far short of genius.

Frankly, all examples of the type, including it and the grogan example, are workshop inventions and productions.

Yes, they might be photogenic and have that pseudo-historic character many other so-called Caucasian village rugs display. But in fact, and according to us, that’s all they have -- pseudo-ersatz-drawing -- and we find rugs like them to be boring and droll.

The two dimensional quality they exude might be hard for less trained observers to notice. But when either of them is placed next to a genuine, early, Caucasian village rug, like the one below, this lack of what we might call integrity is easily detected and discerned.


JC/RK Collection

This kufic bordered rug is, in our opinion, a champion early, pre-1800, Caucasian village rug that is far superior on all counts to either of the two workshop inventions pictured above it.

Study the pictures closely, compare it to the other two "yellow" rugs and we are sure any experienced and impartial, observer will have to agree.

So enjoy the pictures, and please don’t accuse RK of either of those two old worn-out dumbass and untrue criticisms many small-minded idiot-rugdumbers have leveled, and continue to level, at us:
1. the only rugs RK likes are his own
2. sour grapes that RK doesn’t own either of the two “yellow”rugs

Nota bene: RK is perfectly comfortable in praising any worthwhile rug regardless of the fact we do not own it and, honestly, we would not want to own either of these "yellow" rugs at any price...

Author: ChopChop
email:
Fri, Jul 3rd, 2009 05:55:33 PM

Guess you haven't read our recent web-statistic post, huh?

Go check it out, and then be sure to tie your shoes laces carefully or you'll be falling on your face again, weasel.

======================

Man nobody is really paying attention to you. Where are fans?

Author: Friend
email: Friend
Mon, Jun 22nd, 2009 11:13:43 PM

What do you or anyone else know about what RK does?

Answer: very little or next to nothing

===========

Hey jc don't you have any other thing in life? It seems RK and rugs are the only thing you care about!

Author: Zero zoro
email: Zoro
Sun, Jun 21st, 2009 01:42:31 PM

Hey Wake UP Stooge: There is no real, dependable market in any type of antique weaving but furniture rugs.

RK has written enough about this, and the way to begin to alter this situation, so we don't intend to waste more of our time trying to teach dumbass rug-dogs new tricks.

Go bark up someone else's tree, fido, RK is finished doing anything but commenting when we feel it necessary and imperative.

Go ask dennis, the thief, dodds; mikey, little lord, franses; ebberhard, the disgraced, herrmann; jonny, lazy boy, thompson, or any of the other supposed "leaders" of Rugdumb to lead you to the promised land, anonymouse.

And note: RK doesn't take well to sarcasm directed in our direction, especially the lame variety someone like you seems to appreciate.

----------------------------------------

Hey Jack, Jack jc, where are you hiding out? Market is lost without you. Please, please, lead us to the right direction.

Author: Zoro
email:
Sun, Jun 21st, 2009 03:18:09 AM

Here we go again -- another RK hater, who is nothing but another chicken-shit anonyMOUSE, chimes in with more bullshit.

Hey listen, zero-balls, go and show everyone how smart you really are, since you proved already you have no courage.

Why dont'cha show everyone you can put your mouth where your asshole is, zero-balls, and go take just one of our "opinions" that are as you so gracefully put it and demonstrate how wrong RK is and how right you are.

Your IP locates to Maryland so we presume that's where your asshole is.

So as we said, zero-balls, let's see what you can do to prove yourself to be the rug expert.

Oh, and by the way, mousey, RK is glad you make note of what we write. But be sure to credit us when you use our lines elsewhere, OK?

After all our concern sure seems valid as a douche-bag like you probably believes plagiarism is OK, right?

So careful, careful, zero-balls, we don't like to be plagiarized, even by a nobody like you.

==============

Jack once you wrote, opinion is like an asshole, everyone got one. Each time you have an opinion, you prove that not only you have an asshole, you are one.

Author: Superior
email: Email
Sat, Jun 20th, 2009 08:19:42 PM

Cooka Chooka to you too, boo boo

only an idiot would post this dribble,
and it's obvious calling whoever did this
an idiot is a compliment

==================================

Mala chuka chuka chuk. Kasa mass kabesa my ass. Coco choi choi. Jc jc kc. Jc jack jack jackio. Little puppy come here. No no here not there. There are cats over ther you don't wana be their lunch. Chocho. Koko tokaka. Shoo shoo shoo moohsa shasha.

Author: hamid rafatpanah
email:
Sat, Jun 20th, 2009 08:31:14 AM

That's it jc, from now on you will address us as Sir.

OK, humid, HENCEFORTH RK WILL BE GLAD TO CALL YOU sir, SIR SHITHEAD.

HOPE THAT MEETS WITH YOUR APPROVAL, YOU PIECE OF CRAP, LIAR AND PETTY-THIEF CHEAT.

Now, that we are pissed off we will not write back.

LIAR, LIAR PANTS ON FIRE, YOU LITLE SNOT NOSED SHIT.

YOU ALREADY CLAIMED YOU WEREN'T POSTING HERE AGAIN, SO YOUR WORD, LIKE THAT OF YOUR EQUALLY AS DISHONEST BRO momo, IS WORTHLESS.

We had enough fun with fir couple if day and it is unfair for your large audience of four or five to miss the education from rk.

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, SHIT-STAIN, YESTERDAY THERE WERE 106 UNIQUE VISITORS TO THIS WEBSITE. THAT MEANS, SINCE RK KNOWS YOUR PUNY EDUCATION PREVENTS YOU FROM EVEN ADDING OR SUBTRACTING CORRECTLY, 105 OTHER VISITORS BESIDES YOURSELF CAME HERE.

We in east cost got so many calls from friends who appreciated are middle finger typing through eye phone in R kaba. Jc one last request. We in rugdome know who you are, but you always refer to to as we. Who is/are the other person/persons bihund the scene? That has beenbig mystery for us in oldcarpets

CLEARLY, SIR SHIT-HEAD, THERE ARE MANY 'MYSTERIES' YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT LIKE, FOR STARTERS, THE 'MYSTERIES' OF WHAT THE WORDS HONESTY AND TRUTHFULNESS MEAN.

We think that is your only friend, the imaginary one. Have even one friend, just one? Except the one in RKabsa. I try sorry, we try not write back to R Kabsa, if you try not to respond. A small time rug dealer, but still smarter than jack cassin.

YOU DID SAY ONE SEMI-FACTUAL THING HERE, SIR SHIT-HEAD, THAT YOU ARE A SMALL TIME RUG DEALER.

SO SMALL IN FACT THAT WHEN RK WALKS WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO ACCIDENTLY STEP ON YOU.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU NOW, rafatpanah.

Author: JAMAICA PLAIN SHITHEAD AKA V OF R
email:
Fri, Jun 19th, 2009 12:23:01 PM

RK HAS SOME ADVICE FOR YOU TOO, SHITHEAD.

GET LOST AND THEN TAKE YOUR MORONIC DIAGNOSIS, POMPOUS AIRES, AND FLAT-SCREEN TV AND SHOVE THEM UP THAT DARK PLACE YOU SIT ON, ASSHOLE.

AND AFTER YOU'RE DONE, GO OUT INTO JAMAICA PLAIN AND PICK UP ALL THE DOG TURDS YOU CAN FIND AND TAKE THEM HOME FOR SUPPER.

ENJOY YOUR DINNER, SHITHEAD

Holy Cow! I'm reminded of an episode of West Wing where Josh decided to reply to a fan-blog about him. He was warned " No, never answer that, that's where the crazies are!" Sure enough, in only a few exchanges, the fan base had turned against him. I know you guys, why are otherwise savvy people baiting poor Saint Jacky? Its like the bear-baiting that used to be done here in London in the 18th century. Not pleasant. Let's all go back to work. You are only feeding his paranoia and narcissism (although he has made impressive strides in his Touretts syndrome). He is best left alone, in the dark, with no one but the voices in his head listening. Advice to you St. Jack, resume wrapping your skull in aluminium foil to keep the radio waves out.

Author: larty the ANONYmouse
email:
Fri, Jun 19th, 2009 12:01:51 PM

THE MESSAGE BELOW, WRITTEN BY SOME CHICKEN-SHIT ANONYmouse ARSEHOLE, IS PERFECT PROOF OF THE HATE RK SYNDROME AFFECTING MANY OF THE MINI-MINDS IN RUGDOM

AND WHY IS RK BANNED?

BECAUSE THE TRUTH HURTS, AND RK SPEAKS ONLY TRUTH.

FACT IS: MOST OF THE RUG SOCIETIES, MEETINGS AND CONVENTIONS ARE SUCH PATHETIC AFFAIRS RK WOULD NOT EVEN BOTHER TO ATTEND IF THEY SENT A LIMO AND 6 HIGH CLASS VEGAS HOOKERS FOR US.

AND THE FACT RK DOESN'T GO TO THESE "EVENTS" MAKES OUR PROHIBITION FROM THEM MOOT.

SO NEXT TIME YOU, OR ANYONE OF YOUR ILK, WRITES INTO RUGKAZBAH.COM TO LEVY ACCUSATIONS AT RK WHY DONT'CHA AT LEAST HAVE ENOUGH COURAGE AND SENSE OF PERSONAL HONOR TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF PROPERLY.

GOT THAT NOW, CHICKEN-SHITTER.

AND BY THE WAY, THE PARTICULAR MIS-SPELLING OF OUR LAST NAME IN YOUR POST WAS ONLY DONE BY SOMEONE WHO USED TO POST ON PROFESSOR price=CLOWN'S ROMPER ROOM WEBSITE.

WE IMAGINE THAT POSTER AND THIS ONE ARE THE SAME PIECE OF SHIT.

SO IF YOU ARE gene williams OR HIS EQUALLY AS DUMBASS BROTHER, WHOSE NAME WE FORGOT, YOUR NOT IDENTIFYING YOURSELF WOULD BE TYPICAL MODUS OPERANDI FOR DOUCHEBAGS LIKE YOU GUYS.

ENJOY MEDIOCRITY, CHUMP, BECAUSE THAT'S YER MIDDLE NAME, AS WELL AS MANY OTHERS IN RUGDUMB WHO HARBOR SIMILAR HATE FOR RK AND THE TRUTH WE DISPENSE...

-------------------------

Hello everyone, I want everyone to know that Mr. Casein is banned from all the rug shows and events. He is not allowed evev in small ryg society rug gatherings.

Author: humid rafatapanah
email:
Fri, Jun 19th, 2009 11:41:00 AM

Good morning jack. Brain food for us and Viagra for hagop, our emplyees in factories, have lost all? as we said we will try not to write? We never never never said we won't write. This is the only form of entertainment ruggies have. You suck, market sucks, and we r bored. And, I did not have this much fun last one year. Viagra: how do you know he needs it'. Why r u getting so grafic? D..less? Hagop should never talked about your daughter.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS manoyan SHOULD NOT HAVE SAID.

FRANKLY, HE DID NOT EVEN HAVE TO RESPOND TO OUR FIRST POSTING ABOUT THE YELLOW RUG YOU BOUGHT AND THEN PUT IN DEDHAM.

WE DID NOT MENTION HIS NAME, OR ANYTHING TO IDENTIFY HIM.

FACT IS WE DID NOT MENTION YOU EITHER, humid, SO WHY YOU TWO MAGPIES GOT YOUR KNICKERS IN A TWIST IS UNFATHOMABLE TO RK.

THEN WHEN manoyan DECIDED TO WRITE IN HERE HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT THE TENOR OF THE DISCUSSION DOWN AND LIMITED WHAT HE SAID TO MATTERS ABOUT THE RUG IN QUESTION.

NOTE THAT manoyan BEGAN TO ATTACK RK -- HIS FIRST SALVO WAS CALING US A "crook".

HE THEN UPPED THE ANTE AND STARTED TRYING THAT OLD BULLSHIT OF TALKING ABOUT MY SUPPOSED "RELATIONSHIP" WITH MY "DAUGHTER".

HE IS ENTIRELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEGENERATION OF THE DISCUSSION INTO A PERSONAL ONE

HE THEN EVEN STUPIDLY STARTED THREATENING US.

RK WILL NOT ALLOW ANY PIP-SQUEEK RUGGIES TO DISS US WITH BULLSHIT LIES AND INNUENDO WITHOUT OUR PUTTING UP THE TRUTH -- BOTH ABOUT US AND THEM

SO WE HOPE manoyan LEARNED THIS AND SHOULD HE DECIDE TO INTERACT WITH US IN ANY MANNER IN THE FUTURE WE TRUST HE WILL ACT PROPERLY.

But, you are turning almost everything to a dilema.

IF YOU BELIEVE DEFENDING ONES SELF AGAINST SPURIOUS OR DEFAMATORY ATTACKS IS CAUSING A DILEMMA THEN WE SUGGEST YOU FIRST LEARN HOW TO SPELL THE WORD AND THEN LOOK UP ITS MEANING.

I will try not to write not because you told us. Because we had our fun. We will not give validity. We think R K is funnier than Larry Curley and Moe put together.

GET LOST humid, YOU, LIKE manoyan AND YOUR BRO momo, ARE A PROVEN LIAR AND CHEAT.

THAT'S WHY WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE OR WHY WE DO NOT WANT, NOR HAVE WE WANTED IN THE PAST TO HAVE ANY INTERACTION WITH YOU, momo,OR MANOYAN.

WE DONT DEAL WITH PROVEN LIARS AND CHEATS.

PERIOD

END OF DISCUSSION

THAT IS ALSO WHY WE DONT DEAL, AND HAVEN'T DEALT, WITH MANY IN RUGDUMB -- BECAUSE THEY ARE PROVEN LIARS AND CHEATS. People should participte so u will have one stooge show of yours.

FUCK YOU, SHITHEAD.

YOUR OPINION IS WORTHLESS AND ON TOP OF THAT YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A WORTHLESS PIECE OF CRAP -- AS ARE ALL PROVEN LIARS AND CHEATS ACCORDING TO RK.

HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES, humid?

Humid? Calling us names is one thing but making fun of our name? We think it is offensive. That's It we r offended we will not write back again.

LIKE WE SAID TO manoyan, price=CLOWN AND OTHERS, WHEN THEY MADE SIMILAR DECLARATIONS, GOOD RIDDENS.

PS. My writings. I cannot see or review what I am typing. I just line to do it. Specially each each time u claim u have me. Sorry us. And idiot I did mentioned my name in all the emails

TAKE YOUR BULLSHIT WRITING, LYING AND CHEATING BUSINESS ETHICS AND SHOVE THEM, YOU PIECE OF CRAP.

AND DO US ALL A FAVOR: QUIT MAKING EXCUSES FOR YOUR MISERABLE EXISTENCE AND MAKE EFFORT TO IMPROVE YOURSELF INSTEAD OF WASTING OUR TIME READING YOUR DRIBBLE.

Author: jc
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 11:14:15 PM

hagop wrote:
"You keep saying that you'll ban me from this site and you are saying the same thing to Hamid but these posts are your life support machine and that would be the last thing you would do."

HEY STUPID

WE HAVE NOT BANNED YOU, FOR AS WE SAID WE ARE WAITING TO SEE HOW FAR YOU WILL REACH.

humid has already admitted we've made it hard for him to post here so quit twisting what is obvious to anyone with more than the 102 IQ you can boast.

in fact if you KEEP IT UP, DICK-LESS, we just might SINCE YOU WERE SO INTERESTED IN SPEAKING TO MY DAUGHTER AND ASKED FOR HER NUMBER SEVERAL TIMES ask for your home number so RK can....

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

NO NO we'll not cross that bridge you already have navigated, HAGOP YOU LITTLE GREASY SUB-EDUCATED SLOB,

HONESTLY, WE WANT TO STOP THIS AND IF YOU HAVE ANY INTEGRITY YOU WILL CEASE TO FURTHER SPILL YOUR LIES AND DISTORTIONS HERE.

No one writes here except me in the last few days and you need some traffic desperately.so stop pretending that you don't want us here but here comes the bad news.I have been receiving emails and phone calls from my collector and dealer friends and they are accusing me for supporting rug kazbullah with posting here.

HEY IDIOT. HOW DO ALL THESE "COLLECTOR FRIENDS" OF YOURS KNOW ABOUT YOUR "POSTING HERE".

GUESS THEY READ RK TOO, HUH?

LISTEN AGAIN TO THE MUSIC, DEAF ONE, IT IS PLAYING MY SONG, NOT YOURS, SHITHEAD.

AND REMEMBER, LITTLE MAN, WE WERE ALREADY COLLECTING OLD RUGS WHEN YOU WERE STILL IN DIAPERS.

PEOPLE READ RK, THIS IS FACT, OUR STATS PAGE DOESN'T LIE -- IT LISTS AMONG OTHER STATS VISITS BY IP ADDRESS, EVEN YOURS, hagopoppy.

I realized that they are right and honey no more support for you.You are on your own and be careful it is a jungle out there anything can happen.

AGAIN A VIELED THREAT, WHAT KINDA PUNK-ASS JELLYFISH ARE YOU MANOYAN?

BEING WITH YOU "another story"?

GET SOME NEW LINES, AL CAPONE, AND WHILE YOUR AT IT CAREFUL NOT TO PEE ON THOSE CHEAP SHOES....NOT ONLY DO THEY SMELL BUT THEY LOOK BAD.

I am pulling the plug and leaving you withbyour sad and lonely life.so long sucker post all you want and say all you want .

WE HAVE HEARD SUCH A TEAR-JERKER AU REVIOR OFTEN HERE ON RUGKAZBAH.COM.

THERE'S A WHOLE LIST OF SHITHEADS LIKE YOU, hagop, WHO CAME HERE BLATHERING, BLUSTERING, BRAYING AND BULLSHITTING ABOUT US -- AND YOU ONLY COPPED THEIR BULLSHIT, YOU COULDN'T MAKE UP ANY OF YOUR OWN.

WELL,hagopoppy, AGAIN YOU LACK ORIGINALITY IN YOUR APPROACH AND QUITE HONESTLY THAT'S WHY WE ALWAYS FOUND YOU TO BE BORING AND SLIGHTLY LESS THAN AVERAGE FOR THOSE IN RUGDUMB WE USED TO INTERACT WITH IN THE PAST.

SO WE TRULY HOPE THIS IS AN ADIEU FROM YOU, manoyan, YOU RECEIVED A DRUBBING HERE AND ANYTIME YOU WISH TO CONTINUE PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF, RK DOES NOT WANT TO BE BLIND-SIDED BY EVEN A JELLY-FISH OF A BRAGGART LIKE YOU.

Author: jc
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 10:50:56 PM

OK big-time wadda you gonna do to me?

Try and slobber some more bullshit in my direction, punch me, wrestle me to the ground?

Listen up, dickless, if i was afraid of you i'd be quaking in my boots now, wouldn't i?

But, alas, again you come with a stilted and blind-man's vision of what happened.

Its far more becoming, to be at least one-eyed, after all you are a rug dealer, right?

and Lord knows, their reputation in every country RK has been to is not exactly one with high marks on the honesty scale, now isn't that so, manoyan?

That Kazak was better than the one your former master, ebberhardY, bought in Dedham, we agree. But your ludicrous version of why RK did what we did after determining, 100 percent, that you, humid, momo and mr call me guicci were, like little school-girls, conspiring to do your little rug runner petty-thieving, slime-ball post-auction act. One, mind you, RK has seen before after trustingly agreeing to work with someone and allowing them to take possession of the pieces before settling up.

So, manoyan, big-time rug dealer you still have a number of issues to address, so quit fucking around with small talk and veiled threats.

RK suggests you start with your honesty and integrity issues -- after all the "profile" you published on your new website does contain a number of discrepancies with fact and your accusations against RK are equally as questionable to say the least.

=====================

Jackie you forgot your medication again honey. I have some bad news for you jackie but that I'll tell you later.I have been in Europe for the last one week and responding to you via my iPhone so when I said it is getting late for me it was 4am here darling. That kaminski Kazak was great,as usual you didn't understand got your petty cash and run.it is with a great guy now and he was very happy to get it.two weeks later you called and wanted to buy but it was very late for you my mosquito look a like creature Anyway it is normal that you missed and with your limited or no knowledge It would have been more surprising if you kept it Talking about being in the same room with me ,I wouldn't go there honey.

PS: RK DOESN'T COLLECT KAZAK BUT IF WE DID AND WANTED A BORJALU, WE'D HAVE ONE WITH FULL PILE AND AT LEAST, IF NOT BETTER, EXPRESSION.

BUT HOW ABOUT FESSING TO THE COLLUSION YOU AND CALL ME GUCCI GOT CAUGHT PLAYING, WHICH WAS WE READILY ADMIT SOMEWHAT LESS CULPATORY, BUT AGAIN NOT MUCH LESS, THAN momo and hUmid SKIPPING OUT AFTER THE SALE AND THEN RENEGGING ON THEIR FURTHER PROMISES AND SHOWING UP AT YOUR SHOPPE EMPTY-HANDED.

ALL OF YOU, EVEN CALL ME GUCCI, SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED TO HAVE ACTED IN SUCH A PETTY-THIEF CHARADE, ESPECIALLY WITH SOMEONE WHO TRUSTED YOU WOULD BE DEAL HONESTLY LIKE RK STUPIDLY DID.

FOR THE LAST TIME, MIGHT WE ADD...

Author: Hamid Rafatpnah
email: Oldcarpets@aol.com
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 09:28:08 PM

So little doo-doo shoes, hamiddy:

Congrats, you got another IP address. Well its already been blocked, go fish for another, Huck Finn.

As for your missive below? Well, we will play along a bit more and spice it up with some brief comments...

--------------------------------

Jack we already told you that we r responding to you via e y e phone, get it, iPhone.

Now, we did not hide our name or email address. We have never done that.

REGARDLESS OF YOUR POINTLESS EXCUSES BELOW FACT REMAINS, SHERLOCK HOLMES, YOU DID NOT USE YOUR NAME. PERIOD.

YOU ARE DOING SO NOW BECAUSE WE CALLED YOU OUT. PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION.

You called us small time rug dealer and we responded that way. Now for english. We always learn wether it is English rugs and etc. It just not easy to type on phone pad. Now, let me tell you story my little one. Some of were disscussing your case After a show, and someone very credible indicated that you have iodine deficiency. Be he proposed that you should use iodized salt time to time."

Ohhh, Great Shit-Stained 0ne, tell your ruggie friend Ben Casey, or is it Dr. Kildare to prescribe some viagra for manoyan and some brain-food for you.

RK has plenty of iodine, we like sea-vegetables like nori, wakame and hiziki.

But then again fast-foodites like you and Dr Kildare would believe eating some factory-produced bullshit in a plastic bottle will 'cure' me.

Ha Ha, hUmiddy you peon, you make RK laugh. Now go wipe your butt, shithead and don't drip on your shoes, again--you smell bad.

Also, we at oldcarpetsreally don't undersatand how to change the ip adress, we just keep typing from our one eyed phone.

Keep trying, wear your little fingers out to a pulp.

Fer sure as sunshine you wont be straining them counting money -- from what we hear you and bro momo are sinking faster than a turd in a port-potty and even maybe soon your slave employees in the cleaning plant will mutiny when you don't pay them for weeks. Then you and momo will be washin' and rollin' away and not playing big time rug dealers, huh?

Just thought you should be reminded of the reailties and not be like "big-time" manoyan in believing your delusions and dreams of grandeur are reality.

We did indicate that we will try not to write to anymore. But each you come up with something amusing. And like we market sucks you suck everything suck. And we have nothing else to do. BTW. Suck is spelled sock or what we should go bCk to our english lessons. Oh we almost forgot. Honesty, we strongly believe that we have only one honest person in the kingdom of rugdome. And that Is the jack in the rug kazbah. But in the whole kingdom there is only jack. But we believe in him. We know with total integrity and honesty jack tried to cheat his partner but he screwed himself.

Careful, doo doo, accusing me of cheating anyone without proof is called lying -- in Court they call it defamation and a host of other charges we could name. So pay attention carefully to what you write.

We in oldcarpets will try not right back. Was that spelled write back. Ah forget it my English teacher was gwbush. Or was it dan quail.

It's not your pidgin English that is offensive, hUmid, it's the bullshit you write that is.

Author: The small ones
email: Oldcarpets@aol.com
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 08:12:56 PM

let's face it jack just betwee. You and hagop is just boring, let us stir it little bit. Market sucks you suck and we are bored. And oh that Kazak. Oh that hurts I know and the c gul hurt even more. Only if you know as much we did in oldcarpets@aol.com. That kazak certainly worths a lot more In Todays market. Oh man u remember that kazak was even better than the one sold in grogsns for 69 k. Oh jack I know it really hurts.

THE ONLY THING THAT HURTS IS HAVING TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT.

YOU GOT ANOTHER IP, GREAT A CHILD CAN DO THAT.

JUST FOR FUN LET'S GET INTO REALITY LAND.

LITTLE SHITS LIKE YOU WRITE IN HERE ANONYmouseLY AND ACT BIG AND TOUGH, WELL, HAMID, YOU ARE EVEN LOWER ON THE ASSHOLE-POLE THAN manoyan.

TO HIS CREDIT HE FESSED UP IN HIS OWN NAME.

BUT A SQUIRMY, SCUMBAG LIKE YOU, IS TOO AFRAID -- MR JEKYLL AND HYDE

SO FROM THE GETTY-UP YOU ARE ALREADY IN SHIT UP TO YOUR WAIST.

NOW THE RUGS.

WHAT YOU, YOUR LYING EQUALLY AS SQUIRMY BRO mohammed, A CERTAIN ITALIAN DEALER AND manoyan, PLAYED OUT IS NOTHING BUT PETTY THIEVERY.

RK CARES LITTLE FOR LUCRE SO WHAT I COULD HAVE PROFITED FROM THAT OR ANY OTHER RUG HAD YOU ALL BEEN HONEST BOTHERS US NOT.

ONLY A $ORIENTED SNOT-NOSED UNEDUCATED SLOB RUG PICKER LIKE YOURSELF WOULD THROW THAT UP.

NO SEEING YOU AND THE REST GETTING CAUGHT CHEATING RK WAS WORTH MORE -- I SHOULD HAVE NEVER ALLOWED MYSELF TO WORK WITH SCUM-BAGS LIKE Y'ALL.

SO, hamid, WHAT TO DO WITH YOU. WE HAVE ALREADY BLOCKED THIS ADDRESS, AND PRESUMABLY A BLOCK OF OTHERS.....HAVE FUN COMING BACK FOR MORE, AND SURE AS SHIT WE ARE THAT YOU WILL.

==============

Any way we too busy and we have leave u alone with your own world. We enough fun did ourself and our in east and west coast. We wonder how come we don't have any friend in heartland. We will think about that and meditate on I'd for awhile. We will try not respond. As we mentioned we will try. Temtation is just to string. But we will. Control ourselves. Jack you have to give us some credit typing one with one eyed phone with middle finger working on you.

Author: We the people. Small time rug dalers
email: Oldcarpets@aol.com
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 07:51:15 PM

look rambo-hamid, you little shit-stain, enough from you

go take English lessons instead of dribbling your pablum here

We had our webman block your address

if you go get another, we will block that too

If you pesist we will up the ante

So enjoy your boil-a-bag dinner and go fuck yourself, twerp.

=====================

Dear RK, just to let your dear reader to know that since we don't have access to computer we are sending emails through the great iPhone, you know the phone, the one that has a eye(RK's phone may have two eyes). So, please, excuse any gramtic problems in our writtings. Actually, we are having our dinner and typing with one finger. That is you must know is our middle finger. Dear RK readers please this time around get involved and contribute. We don't like to see RK shot down again. Meanwhile, we will be busy ckecking none Rk related and unimportant stuff such as unrest In Iran. We in oldcarpet thank RK again for having us. Now, we need our middle finger to clear our nose where RK claims have been buying under it. We and we we we and we at OLDCAROET like to thank you again. Stay tuned while we direct our finger to different subject.

Author: hamid rafatpanah
email: Oldcarpets
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 07:05:12 PM

Listen carefully, hamid, you are not welcome here.

Why?

Because you, like manoyan, are a lying piece of shit.

The way we met proved it to me, you little shit.

And years later after the kaminski sale outside Boston the way you and your equally integrity-challenged brother, mohammed, acted proved it again in spades.

We could go on, ass-wipe, but why bother.

You and your brother are nothing but a pair of low level shysters who buy crap rugs to peddle to naive trusting folks. I pity them.

So go get lost and peddle your equally bullshit ideas elsewhere, mr jeykll and hyde.

Remember what you told me when you ran away with the C gol rug you promised to sell me?

Again, hamid, get lost and go pee in your pants, sonny.

The only thing RK wants to see of you, or your lying cheating brother, is your backs as you are fading into the sunset.

Hope that's clear now, hamid.

-------------------

Dear Rk, we did not mean that the rug was fake, we just wanted tell your readers that, some people liked to undermine our purchase. We certainly believed in what we persued.

And, we in small-time rug dealers world believe in rks work and effort.

Today we have recieved calls from east and west coast that how happy they are that RK is back to action again.

We in Oldcarpets believe in you be support you.

You may insult us as you allways do.

Since, that the only way you can communicate, but, let not forget that getting insulted by RK means we are doing something right.

What that is hopefully you will explain it us.

We were so lost in the rug world without your leadership last few month and do not know where to turn. We in the oldcarpets are her happy to see you back.

At the end I like tell everone that please read the "first and last freedom" by the great J Krishnamurti.

He is the answer fir all of us in the rug world. He teachs that the great ones such jak are created for reasons beyond our comprehension. Thank you. Really really really thank you jack

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 07:02:44 PM

It's only 9PM EST

What's this, need your beauty sleep, shithead?

If that's the case then an ugly bastard like you will have to sleep for eons.

Were that only the reality.

===================

Jackie it is getting late and I am getting bored.you are very boring and no life man.I'll see you first thing tomorrow okay? Kisses

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 06:50:18 PM

Listen, dick-less, you balding piece of shit quit asking us bullshit questions

if you are so interested you can wait for the next time we are in the same room, and RK will be glad to show you what it's all about

so until then, manoyan, take your shriveled little dick, your stupid ideas and opinions and go rotate on them

or better yet, since you are the big traveller and RK stays at home, come visit us here in the Rocky Mountains...

but, punk, nota bena: There is something called "fighting words" here that will allow me to put you in a box if you open you mouth to me like you seem to feel fit to do on this discussion board.

Is this now clear enough for an uneducated, scum-swallowing liar like you to get your puny pip-squeek mind around.

------------------

come on jackie please let's continue.I am the only one here and I believe you are bluffing.I asked you about the ends and sides.but I believe they are tinted right.well you look like mosquito who had been been raped and you are not telling us about your status.so a world known expert like you who knows everything shouldn't go unnoticed. Again your daughter's name and tel number please.you don't have anything to hide right?as our rug kazbullah readers will know and read at the opening pagE Anything goes

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 06:35:26 PM

As we said, manoyan suck our dick, you piece of crap.

We would ban you from posting on RugKazbah.com at this point, manoyan, but won't because we are now more than willing to go to the mattress with you, arsehole, so carefully judge your next moves, dick-less...

-------------

jackie jackie jackie We were talking about your daughter who was born in 1966 and since you are the father where is the mother? Why don't you tell us about her mother ? Or did you totally forgot about her? Shame on you jackie.our readers on rug kazbullah(I believe that is only me)would like to know more about your daughter and your a.so is she in original condition?how about the ends and sides?any restoration?I am sure she is archaic looking since she decided to have a child with you.

Author: jc
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 06:24:38 PM

OK hagop want round two, here it is.

1. Why don'tcha go take your puny dick and impregnate your wife tonight?

Oh, sorry, you have been married for years, right, how come you have produced no children?

Are you as impotent as steev price?

Could very well be, huh, as you both demonstrably share other traits as well.

2. Perhaps you've seen fit to harp on a child RK produced over thirty years ago because you are jealous of that fact?

Maybe your dick is too small to squirt the white stuff into her, or is it something else?

Go tell RugKazbah's readers, we are sure they all want to know, especially since you are such a notable and famous dealer in rugDUMB.

3. Did your rug dealing daddy get you the first job in Istanbul? Come on, hagop, nothing to be ashamed of here, tell us all.

4. Do you have any brothers?

Did they follow in daddy's shoes like you have, or did they strike out on their own?

5. Again it is clear you refer to youself as a master restorer -- but fact is the only mastering you've been up to is masturbating about yourself, you lying schmuck0.

6. Go read our hagop manoyan post, bullshitter, and let's hear your dumb attempts and braying bullshit denials of the true history you carry round in your empty pockets, dick-head.

Want more, manoyan?

Just keep it up and continue to diss us with lies and defamatory bullshit and we will be glad to get you some smelling-salts to awaken you from all your fantasies that we have knocked down like duck-pins at a bowling alley, you shit-head.

Author: hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 06:07:37 PM

I think something good came out of this posts and jackie decided to call his daughter and telling how sorry he is.let's leave the father and daughter alone.

Author: hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 05:50:05 PM

come on jackie this is not fun anymore.a world known person like you doesn't tell his side of the story ,has a daughter we are all dying to know more about her and our jackie goes all quiet. I feel sorry for her and understand her pain.It is not her fault.we do not. Hose our parents don't we be jackie?

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 05:01:53 PM

Jackie come on we were talking about your daughter.since your rug kazbullah is a world known authority Im sure our readers would like to know little bit about the owner's status right? Writing is cheap it is time to tell your part of the stor.so why don't you tell us about you relationship with your daughter.oh do not tell that you have no relationship how come a big expurrt like you dominates the rug world but cannot even keep a decent relationship with his daughter.so start telling our readers with her name.come on you are among friends

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 04:47:38 PM

Oy mr manoyan:

Go talk to steev price=clown or blurry oCONnell. You belong on their websites not here.

Because of your persistent refusal to discuss rugs, and failure to stop blathering stupid innuendo about us, we will ban you from posting here the next time you upchuck more of the same.

Discuss the yellow rug or get banned. Simple as that, shit-head.

---------------------

Oh no not that easy chimp.I am sure she is very sorry that she had a father like you.so like you always say about other people's rugs Mr casiin why don't you tell us about your daughter little bit and I am sure our readers(look what I am talking about andI sound like jackie)would like to know about this subject.your relationship her name what she thinks about you her tel number so we can contact her etc.are you familiar with these kind of questions jackie? Oh yes you are oh yes you are.

Author: hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 04:31:08 PM

My daughter is a story that is completely different than what you claim to know. You know nothing, asshole.

She was born in 1966.

And let me tell you something, manoyan, by that time I had done more in my life than you will do in your entire life -- forget comparing yourself to what I have accomplished since.

So anytime you want to play "who is who" games with me, first off shit-head get your stories straight and quit vomiting bullshit.

=====================

jackie you are breaking my heart.let's talk about your daughter for a while.how is she ?are you in touch?does she know what Kind of situation you are in?last time I heard she went to a psychic to do wodoo stuff on you.

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 04:19:23 PM

Now, in keeping with the clown you are, you are resorting to sarcasm and not even intelligent or clever sarcasm.

Sorry to tell you, manoyan, but your lame sarcastic remarks are nothing but more BULLSHIT.

Lord knows, it appears you can do nothing else and by doing more of the same you will only help yourself to slide down the slippery slope of infamy you stepped on when you decided to try and denigrate RK.

As we said go take a piss in your cheap shoes, quit this crap and remember this discussion started about that rug at grogans and your thieving sale of it to your backer.

A discussion you are completely unable to continue in any shape or form.

------------

Jackie this is fun I am glad we hook up. I need your advise and I need itdesperately. How can buy a good rug? People say you are little bit cookooooooooo but they are jealeous.Right?

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 04:13:25 PM

COME ON, manoyan, YOU'VE PLAYED WITH YOUR PUD AND VERBALLY MASTURBATED ENOUGH HERE TODAY.

IT IS CLEAR YOU KNOW LITTLE ABOUT ANYTHING BUT YOUR OWN BULLSHIT, SO GO ENJOY YOURSELF PLAYING BIG-TIME RUG-DEALER SOMEWHERE ELSE.

YOU ARE, AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN, NOTHING BUT A BORING, SELF-POSSESSED, NOBODY IN RUGDUMB AND YOUR TRANSPARENT HOPES OF DISSING US HAVE, LIKE THE REST OF YOUR CRAPOLA, SHOWN YOU TO BE THE NOBODY, LITTLE-MAN, RUG PEDDLER YOU KNOW YOU ARE.

------------------

I am dying to know how many of you are there at rug kazbullah.you keep saying we we we that sounds like you have to go to rug kazbullah sorry the toilet,restroom etc you know you are familiar the place better than your home which you don't have

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 04:04:11 PM

YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME OR RUGKAZBAH, SCHMUCK0.

NOR DO YOU REALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PRE-COMMERCIAL PERIOD RUGS.

AND BTW: PUTTING MORE MEDIOCRE MID-19TH CENTURY RUGS ON YOUR WEBSITE WILL NOT IMPROVE IT, SUCKER

SO IN THE END ALL YOU DO HERE IS CONTINUE TO POST INNEUNDO, HALF-TRUTHS, DISTORTED INTERPRETATIONS AND, YES, LIES ABOUT RK.

WHY?

ANSWER: BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU CAN NOT DISCUSS A RUG WITH US.

YOU DO NEED EXPERTISE, manoyan, THIS IS SURE BUT RK WOULD NOT BOTHER TO HELP YOU, EVEN IF YOU HAD ENOUGH MONEY IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT TO PAY OUR CONSULTATION FEES.

SO AGAIN, QUIT BRAYING AND BLUSTERING, ITS BORING- REAL BORING.

---------------------

Jackie my website is too good for you darling.it is a new one and I'll post more rugs but please I need your expertise and comments.I cannot imagine my website without your deep knowledge and wisdom. Now when you first introduced your rug kazbullah your goal was to get enough traffic and catch some buyers but it didn't work.instead it turned to be a staten island garbage collection dump.now jackie with this attitude you cannot get any clients youthought Internet,writing,new clients, rich jackie assin match but no darling oh no.oh by the way at ease.

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 03:53:50 PM

MORE BULLSHIT.

GO AHEAD, manoyan, HIT US WITH YOUR BEST SHOT, SONNY.

FACT IS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RK BESIDES A BUNCH OF INNUENDO, SLANDER AND DEFAMATION.

SO WATCH YOUR STEP OR YOU MIGHT REGRET SLANDERING US WITH MORE OF THE SAME.

=====================

Ah I we go personal now Jackie I wouldn't do it if I were you.by the way how is your daughter?the one you left,abandoned like her mummy and she is cursing you every day.you want to go personal?I don't think so creep

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 03:45:11 PM

SUCK MY DICK, manoyan.

GO TAKE YOUR WORTHLESS SELF, YOUR SHITBOX INVENTORY, YOUR BOGUS IDEAS ABOUT RUGS AND YOURSELF, PLUS YOUR COMPUTER AND GET LOST.

YOU ARE A PROVEN LIAR, A RUG CLOWN AND AN ASSHOLE.

AND BY THE WAY YOUR SHITTY LITTLE WEBSITE IS JUST THAT SHITTY AND LITTLE.

CONGRATS, AND WELCOME TO THE INTERNET, SCHMUCK0

------------

Jackie my crook, I am writing this letter to you to warn you that it is a dangereous world out there.we all sawwhat happened to you when you went out and bought that low end rug without my help.do not touch Caucasians you creep because the more you talk about them themoreyou are sinking like a fat pig.by the way I am running out of toilet paper please give me a couple of your kilims I promise I'll recycle them after I use them. What doesn' make sense is according to you everybody else is stupid and you are the smart one right? From now on I am forbidding you to make comments about high end rugs like the yellow one I have and the other ones you posted.know your limits,you can buy and sell the low end ?100 bags etc.but those good ones oh no.you cannot sit in front of the computer ,know nothing and make comments bout them.

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 03:02:56 PM

More bluster, bullshit and crapola -- apparently this is this all you can do, manoyan.

Fact is are you are, at best, a lesser second or third tier rug dealer, who's little shoppe is visited by dealers and some collectors.

You think you are big time but that, like the rest of the bullshit you try so diligently to use against us, is nothing but more tinker-bell fantasy. Go wipe your stinkin' butt with that bullshit, sonny, and quit spewing it here.

Your Lloyd Cotsen story is as scrambled as the Turkmen bag story and what can we say other than you are again spinning, twisting, lying and making up stories.

When all is said and done, hagop, it is perfectly clear who and what you are, as well as who and what RK is.

So take your empty checkbook and miniscule rug-knowledge and shove it, arsehole.

And, as we said before, anytime you want to try to show your illusionary rug expertise, get on a stage with us, shithead, and we will, as we did here, unmistakably demonstrate who is who and what is what.

You have wasted enough of our time, this is clear, but get it straight, mr manoyan, we are willing to discuss anything with anyone at anytime, as long as they cut the crap and talk about rugs. And as for you, dingo, that means leaving your stupid fantasies and dopey shithead illusions about us or yourself back in Queens where you live.

Got it now, schmucko.

And BTW: That fractured-fairy-tale story you tried to tell about the sumak bags is nothing but more bullshit.

We never said it was fake, shithead.

We said the alleged silk was nothing but shiny wool.

Plus we would never, and have never, asked your opinion about any rug so, you stupid fuck, quit claiming we did.

We have pics of the sumak bags but honestly we have posted enough proof to show, even a joker and clown like you, how far from reality you are, little man.

So take the subway and go home to Queens. Eat your dinner and play the big man with your wife if you even can.

It so obvious you are out of your league here, sonny-boy, way out.

---------------------

I am back honey don' worry and don' get excited.Did you get your medication today?Not again.Cotsen story is like this:I sold two rugs two Cotsen,Jackie hears about it,calls me and tells me that he'll call Cotsen,tell him that he bought wrong stuff,I'll return the rugs he'll get rugs from me,sell themto him and we'll share the profit.when you learned that he only bought those rugs for certainplaces and I told you that it is out of question you saidnever mind.now you crook,you low time mosquito look a like creature I thought I had seen them all but this topped all of them.You called me about a pair of Shahsavan bags from rugrabbit and said they are fake I said no and the seller said that I said I saw them then you were convinced.so Jackie talk is cheap here but we both know who knows what behind theclose doors.

Author: jc
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 12:13:31 PM

Once again, mr manoyan, your foolish recounting of unrelated stories, and you have not even recounted them correctly, demonstrates much -- it demonstrates that lack of integrity we mentioned yesterday.

While we are against turning the discussion at hand, which is let's all remember about the long yellow rug sold at grogans, into a personal one RK will not allow you to unilaterally vomit up a bunch of crapola and bullshit about us without providing the real facts and truth.

So let us digress a few moments and provide some reality to the tinker-bell fantasy accusations you have so incorrectly levied.

Our comments will appear in bold type, so read them carefully, mr manoyan, and learn the difference between fact and fiction, schmuck.

"Jackie Jackie Jackie
You Crooky Jackie.
Now listen Crook.

That $100 is already forgotten but the story behind that is funny isn't it?"

Like the small-minded arsehole you are, manoyan, you keep harping on a story that you admit is "already forgotten". So the only thing "funny" about this is your mentioning it again.

If it is already forgotten, shithead, then why did you even mention it in the first place, let alone a second time.

The answer to that question, even for an uneducated rug-restorer turned rug-peddler like yourself, should not be too difficult to compute.

However since you might need some help let RK clue you in to the answer: Since you have no real dirt to throw up at us, you then have to resort to something, anything, no matter how flimsy.

This is piss-poor logic, mr manoyan, but what else to expect from someone of your ilk?

So get your shit together, manoyan, and quit trying to make us into a boogey man.

But, as droll as it is, let's continue to examine more of your efforts to sully us before we also turn the klieg lights of fact and truth on your amateurish attempt to prove how wunderbar, in your sophomoric blood-shot rug-eyes, that yellow long (and the others of its "type") supposedly are .

"You called me 8 years ago and asked me to do you a favor and get it i mean buy the Turkmen bag Bertram posted which was $500."

Yes, this is true, since RK doesn't want to deal with a creep like frauenknecht, we asked you to do it on our behalf.

"I did and put the charges on my fedex account." After seeing it in person you didn't take the bag i ended up with it and you still owe that $100."

Instead of spinning bull here, manoyan, why don't you tell the truth?

Fact is when frauenknecht sent you the bag and RK saw it some days later and did not want it you said instead of my sending it back that you would buy it.

This is what happened, schmuck, and your selective memory needs some major recalibration, if that is even possible with a brain like yours that clearly is not of the highest of intellectual capacity.

"Your word against mine guess who is right."

There is no guessing needed, manoyan, your story is nothing but a half-assed untrue recital, one that is lame and stupid besides the reality your bringing it up is totally unrelated to any issue here.

But let RK continue to provide the facts to counter and further destroy your bogus positions and illusions.

"You didn't even know about a $500 Turkmen bag and like a belly dancer you started dancing and said well i just wanted to examine it."

Again, manoyan you're full of shit. We never said that so quit putting your words in our mouth, clown.

Fact is: RK is a serious Turkmen collector for more than 30 years and our collection is surely enough proof that we know about these articles.

The fact the Turkmen bag you had sent to you on our behalf, which let's all remember we saw only a small out of focus digital picture of, was not when seen in the flesh not good enough for us to buy is immaterial to anything.

Fact is it was a good enough buy for a rug-peddler like you to want to deal. That’s why you bought it, liar.

So in reality, manoyan, you did not get “stuck” with it, as you falsely claim, but you wanted it.

What did you do with it?

Frankly RK could care less but since you want to hang out this bullshit in public go answer the question and please tell the truth, if that's possible.

"You are full of it and this is your life crook."

Sorry, manoyan, but the truth makes you and your statements appear to be exactly what they are -- bullshit.

"Do you want me to write the Cotsen story too?"

Yes, please do but be sure you do it honestly and don't bore us with more tinker-bell fantasy BS, manyoan.

"Or in my shop in front of me you trying to sell your commercial floor covering kilim collection which is worth pennies to a European dealer for one million dollars?"

Ha Ha. "Commercial floor covering", well manoyan the more you try to prove yourself the more you look like the stupid little boy wearing daddy's shoes.

Careful you don’t trip again and mortally hurt yourself, junior.

If you really believe that about our Kelim Collection we suggest you close your little rug shoppe and get a job at a 7/11.

Really now, manoyan, you are digging yourself a hole you will never emerge from...keep it up schmuck.

"When he kindly rejected you kept insisting and said buy the whole thing buy the whole thing and he was laughing at you."

The more you present your "version" of RK's supposed actions the more it becomes apparent what a little jealous, pip-squeek dolt of a ruggie you are.

RK has never begged anyone to buy anything from us and our Kelim Collection is not for sale, nor was it ever discussed in front of you.

Start telling the truth, mr shitbreath manoyan. For your edification, RK has discussed our Kelim Collection with certain individuals over the years but only for sale as a DONATION to an INSTITUTION and not as something that could be resold or marketed publicly.

Is that clear enough for you now?

"So since you are a midget brained rug wanna be columnist let me teach you one thing and listen carefully."

Hey, manoyan, a dumbass barely toilet-trained rug peddler like you couldn't teach anyone but a naive ruggie anything so please wake up and smell the flowers.

And even though it's a waste of our time to critique your amateur-hour assessment of the long "yellow" rug in question, we will be glad to do it to show how little you know and how poorly you express your thimble-full of rug-knowledge.

"The two yellow Caucasian rugs you posted are great the blue one has nothing to do with the group and i don't know why you put the image of that.I guess that's how much you know."

Well, clearly either you can't read, can't comprehend what you read, or are just to intellectually deficient to understand why we illustrated the kufic bordered rug from our collection.

Simply put, manoyan you dunce, we published it to show what a genuine circa 1800 (or earlier) Caucasian village rug looks like in comparison to later workshop produced pseudo-village rugs like the two yellow rugs.

"The yellow group is rare,only 7-8 known examples exist,the small one belongs to a very nice lady from Boston and she got it from Eberhart years ago."

Hey rug-dunce, the number of examples is meaningless, even a bean-counter rug amateur like you, manoyan, should know that.

The fact the kufic-bordered rug of our has no other similar known examples is meaningless to us but it is fact.

Our rug is an archetype and the two yellow rug you seem to adore (or any of the others of the type) are not archetypes, or even prototypes. They are nothing but commercially produced inventions, they are not indigenously developed rug motifs like the kufic bordered rug exhibits.

Obviously, a discussion like this is way above your head, manoyan, so if you need further instruction perhaps you should put your dusty, little used, thinking cap on for awhile and maybe, just maybe, you might get it.

Frankly we seriously doubt you can but there is always the chance, no matter how small, a blind-man might see again.

I saw i9t in person.I would like to own that too but it is not for sale."

Let us inform you of the real story: A dealer in California owned it and sold it to hermann who then sold it to judy smith the "nice" lady you mention.

But regardless of who owns, or owned, or the fact it is the best of the type -- the type itself is nothing but a group of inventive workshop production pieces.

We can easily dissect the design to prove this but we have no time or desire to do so here.

However, should you like to meet us on a public stage to discuss these rugs, the long yellow rug and others of its type, we will be glad to make you look like the tongue-tied little boy rug schmuck you are manoyan.

So if you want to learn about these yellow rugs and the group, manoyan, go set up a debate and we will send you packing, dingo, just as we are doing here.

"The later ones come in navy background which i have one, there are Yerevan rugs as well with the same design."

Who cares about the later ones?

"The black and white border is one of the most desirable and rarest among Caucasians."

We presume you are talking about the border on the two yellow rugs, right?

Well again so what. This border is nothing but an attempt to replicate and reproduce a Persianate-type design.

Guess we need to remind you these are supposed to be "Caucasian" village rugs and while we will gladly agree the border is "pretty" it is foreign.

That 'foreign"-ness, mr manoyan, is actually one of many other indications we could cite that demonstrate our perspective on these rugs -- they are workshop and not genuine village production -- is the correct one.

"The condition of that piece is okay for the age but compare to mine is poor."

Who cares about condition?

Let RK inform you condition is only important for furniture rugs but for genuinely rare masterpiece early examples, and any pre-mid 19th century Caucasian village rug fits that bill, it is a secondary issue if one at all.

But then again, hagop, a low-level rug-dealer of your ilk can only focus on condition, as you have well demonstrated your inabilities to differentiate a pastiche workshop rug from a real village rug.

Fact is the smaller yellow rug the "nice lady from Boston" owns is so far superior in all other respects to the long rug from grogans.

Too bad you can’t realize this and your amateur-hour eyes are only able to see "condition"?

Your failure to admit this, the fact the small rug is superior, is but one more example of how over your head you are in this discussion with RK.

"The colors are excellent,the purple in my rug is the best and mine has full pile and believe it or not condition effects the price."

Duhhhhh, get real, manoyan. Condition only affects the price of furniture, not rare early weavings.

Go back to selling the mediocre mid-late 19th century rugs in your inventory, you are lost with anything else.

Once again, manoyan, the long rug is not as old or as well conceived or articulated as the smaller one. This is a fact, schmuck, no matter that the long one is in better condition or has a better "purple".

Yesshh get your shit together, manoyan. Quit wearing daddy's shoes and believing you are a rug-expert, you clown.

"There are three known long ones and five small so far."

So what, the fact they are all commercial workshop production is the salient one, not how many are "known", dummy.

"It is easy to sit in front of the computer to post images and talk about them but writing a check is a different story."

If you think writing a check, especially a big one, for a mediocre workshop invention is cool then enjoy yourself in a fool’s paradise, manoyan.

That's the point here, schmuck, not the fact you wrote the check.

"That's what i do i write checks."

From what we have heard your check-book is just as empty today as it was that day at gorgans and you got the money from a backer, right?

So quit playing big daddy rug-dealer, manoyan, and go back to your romper-room little shoppe where you can play big-daddy warbucks all day long.

You can’t get away with this crapola illusion here, and that is clear to anyone reading this, you posturing schmuck.

RK says: HA Ha, manoyan, go write checks, with other people’s money, for mediocre furniture rugs and dream the dreams that you, hagop manoyan, are a big-time rug dealer.

"On the other hand you don't know rugs, i experienced that first hand with your $500 Turkmen torba fiyasco,saw you buying $100 bags in Brimfield,sell junk on Ebay and buy a prayer Caucasian rug in New England auction which is full of chemical dyes and didn't even know about it and come to me and beg me to buy it."

Ho, ho, schmuck, let's shed some light here.

1. You claim we "don't know rugs", right?.

Are you so doused with your kool-aid that you believe this bullshit? RK forgot more than a pip-squeek rug peddler like you will ever know.

Yessshhh, come on, manoyan, wake the fuck up you schmuck and quit trying to prove your stupid assertions about RK. You are only hurting your position, fool, not furthering it with such crapola.

2. The Turkmen “fiasco” you continue to harp on is nothing but your inabilities to tell the truth.

3.You never saw us buy anything at Brimfield, so quit lying. And even if you did it is clear you would not know what it is we bought anyway.

4.Sell junk on Ebay? Yes, it is true RK sold several(two or three in total) lesser pieces on EBAY but so what?

They were gotten in trade and we tried EBAY out.

Period. End of discussion.

But on the other hand you, mr manoyan, have piles of even less interesting lesser pieces on the floor of your little shoppe.

And you do this everyday, you deal with lesser pieces. RK doesn't, so quit trying to brand us with your ridiculously arched and dumbass assertions.

5. Again you claim we "beg" people to buy our rugs.

What bullshit, manoyan, we never begged you, or anyone, to buy anything of ours and never will.

Here is a picture of that prayer rug we bought in New England in 2006.

First off it was bought for $7,500 plus premium at Hubley’s auction in Boston and if you think RK will buy a rug with chemical dyes for 100$, let alone 7,500$ plus, you are even more of an idiot than we could imagine.

We will include two details of the rug at the end of our comments.

Go look at these pictures, manoyan you schmuck, you might learn something.

Also for your information the rug was sold after a year or so to a MAJOR US collector, whose name is often mentioned with hushed breath and awe by low-level wannabe rug-dealers like yourself.

And as for your absurd assertions the “boys” gave it to me, or the chemical dyes you imagined?

All RK can say this is nothing but more fantasy bullshit from you.

We will admit the rug is not the oldest or greatest “cabistan” prayer rug we have ever seen but it is a wonderfully exciting and playful example that is old enough and cool enough to warrant the price we paid.

Did you even see it in person, manoyan, before it sold at Hubleys?

If you did and thought it had “chemical dyes” we are not surprised as you prove over and over you are nothing but amateur-hour small-time shithead ruggie.

Got it straight now, mr supposed big-time rug-dealer, who is in fact nothing but little mr schmucko?

“New England boys stuck it to you badly and were laughing with their mouths open.”

The “New England” boys you refer to are often seen laughing with their mouth’s open.

Know why?

Let RK tell you: Because these boys, rug pickers and small-time dealers, know even less than a dolt like you knows, manoyan.

Fact is: RK has bought a number of great pieces under their noses, and yours as well, manoyan.

Need more proof than the cabistan pictures, you piece of crap?

“So to wrap it up go and learn rugs,having a website doesn't qualify you to make comments about other people's rugs.”

First of all the yellow rug from grogans is not yours. It belongs to a backer, so quit trying to convince us it is yours. And now pay attention now manyoan, you dick-head.

RK’s websites don’t qualify us to say anything.

What is written on our websites, our collections and our books qualify RK’s expertise.

And as we said anytime you want to get on a public forum with us to try and prove yourself the expert we will quickly and expertly demonstrate what a piss-poor, poseur, amateur-hour rug-peddler you are.

“Now you can sit.”

Go fuck yourself manoyan, you pompous clown.

You could not tell RK when to sit or when to stand, you schmuck. And your highly mistaken belief you could is as fallacious as all the bullshit you wrote here.

We are ready for round 2, manoyan, be sure you are should you attempt to further this discussion.

Detail a

Detail b

Author: Small-Time rug dealer Hamid
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 08:32:44 AM

Greetings, hamid: Our comments follow in bold type.

Yes, you are right -- you are a small-time rug dealer and RK referring to you with that description was, believe it or not, kind.

Should you want to argue to point, we will gladly counter any other illusions you might harbor about your position in rugDUMB.

Jack almost any info u have is incorret from begining to the end,except for the purchase price in grogans.

Says who?

The big time dealer never purchased the kuba in Grogan rather, if he claims he owns it, it means he ended up with it after the fact.

While it is immaterial who bought it at grogans the fact remains it sold for 32,500 dollars PLUS premium, and then another 40,000 dollars was paid out by manoyan's backer for manoyan to keep it.

"Big-time" manoyan then, as we have been assured, sold it to his "backer" for the 125,000 dollars we mention.

Since we were not there, and neither were you, we might both be wrong but RK trusts his sourceS and stands by our recital of the facts surrounding the rug sold at grogans.

By the way, you are the one who bought it at the antique auction with, as we have been assured, someone else's money.

You bought it under the conditions we mentioned and when your "backer" did not want to keep it, you put it in grogans.

We also have heard from our sourceS that when the rug sold for less than the price you initially charged your "backer", and he then forked over to you, you had to refund the difference to him.

So that's the story here hamid. Fess up or get lost.

We don't know who is your connection in MI5, but someone is feeding you wrong info. But it is good to know that there were rumors in the market that alleged carpet was fake and has been around for long time.

Oy, hamid, who said it was a fake? Why you vomit up such a foolish caveat shows you, like hagop, are intellectually incapable of discussing anything with RK, even something as simplistic as that rug.

The source of that rumors was the no one but one of the three proud owners.

Who gives a flying fuck, hamid. No one, even a jerk like manoyan, would so foolishly spread such bull.

Go get in your jalopy and head off to the next antique auction and hope another long yellow rug is there.

Maybe next time you will get the gold ring. Last time it appears all you ended up with was a brass one, at best.

Author: Hagop
email:
Thu, Jun 18th, 2009 01:40:50 AM

Jackie Jackie Jackie You Crooky Jackie. Now listen Crook. That $100 is already forgotten but the story behind that is funny isn't it? You called me 8 years ago and asked me to do you a favor and get it i mean buy the Turkmen bag Bertram posted which was $500.I did and put the charges on my fedex account.After seeing it in person you didn't take the bag i ended up with it and you still owe that $100.Your word against mine guess who is right. You didn't even know about a $500 Turkmen bag and like a belly dancer you started dancing and said well i just wanted to examine it.You are full of it and this is your life crook. Do you want me to write the Cotsen story too? Or in my shop in front of me you trying to sell your commercial floor covering kilim collection which is worth pennies to a European dealer for one million dollars?When he kindly rejected you kept insisting and said buy the whole thing buy the whole thing and he was laughing at you. So since you are a midget brained rug wanna be columnist let me teach you one thing and listen carefully.The two yellow Caucasian rugs you posted are great the blue one has nothing to do with the group and i don't know why you put the image of that.I guess that's how much you know.The yellow group is rare,only 7-8 known examples exist,the small one belongs to a very nice lady from Boston and she got it from Eberhart years ago.I saw i9t in person.I would like to own that too but it is not for sale.The later ones come in navy background which i have one,there are Yerevan rugs as well with the same design.The black and white border is one of the most desirable and rarest among Caucasians.The condition of that piece is okay for the age but compare to mine is poor.The colors are excellent,the purple in my rug is the best and mine has full pile and believe it or not condition effects the price.There are three known long ones and five small so far. It is easy to sit in front of the computer to post images and talk about them but writing a check is a different story.That's what i do i write checks.On the other hand you don't know rugs, i experienced that first hand with your $500 Turkmen torba fiyasco,saw you buying $100 bags in Brimfield,sell junk on Ebay and buy a prayer Caucasian rug in New England auction which is full of chemical dyes and didn't even know about it and come to me and beg me to buy it.New England boys stuck it to you badly and were laughing with their mouths open. So to wrap it up go and learn rugs,having a website doesn't qualify you to make comments about other people's rugs. Now you can sit.

Author: jc
email:
Wed, Jun 17th, 2009 03:57:15 PM

Well, well, mr manoyan, still harping, after 10 years, on the alleged 100 dollars.

Remember, chump, you told us to slip it under the door of your shoppe, and that's exactly what we did.

You claim we did not and we know we did.

So who's kidding who now, belzeebub?

But back to the yellow rug.

Seems kinda strange to RK, and we are sure we are not the only one, why you are doing such a flat-footed dance around this.

RK could care less if you "own" the yellow rug or not.

Fact is the rug is exactly what we claim and if you had any integrity, or knowledge about rugs, you would address that issue instead of trying to denigrate us with unrelated nonsense and bullshit.

If anyone is a crook, it's you dingo.

And by the way, hagop, go play hide and seek with your shadow, schmuck. RK has far better uses for our time than playing around with a shitty two-bit rug-restorer who stupidly believes he is a knowledgeable rug dealer.

Your merchandise is mediocre and pedestrian, perhaps that's why a rug-poseur like you believes/believed that yellow rug was something special.

Author: Hagop
email: H.manoyan@Att.net
Wed, Jun 17th, 2009 01:44:21 PM

Well, well, mr manoyan, still harping, after 10 years, on the alleged 100 dollars.

Remember, chump, you told us to slip it under the door of your shoppe, and that's exactly what we did.

You claim we did not and we know we did.

So who's kidding who now, belzeebub?

But back to the yellow rug.

Seems kinda strange to RK, and we are sure we are not the only one, why you are doing such a flat-footed dance around this.

RK could care less if you "own" the yellow rug or not.

Fact is the rug is exactly what we claim and if you had any integrity, or knowledge about rugs, you would address that issue instead of trying to denigrate us with unrelated nonsense and bullshit.

If anyone is a crook, it's you dingo.

And by the way, hagop, go play hide and seek with your shadow, schmuck. RK has far better uses for our time than playing around with a shitty two-bit rug-restorer who stupidly believes he is a knowledgeable rug dealer.

Your merchandise is mediocre and pedestrian, perhaps that's why a rug-poseur like you believes/believed that yellow rug was something special.

------------------------------------

Listen to me crook.why don't you pay that $100 you owe me for fedex instead of talking about thousands of dollars.Ah you said you came by I wasn't in the shop and dropped the cash right?Here is a good story for rug kazbullah.hB the way why don't you come out of Colorado.Let's play hide and seek.

Author: jc
email:
Wed, Jun 17th, 2009 01:28:57 PM

Hello again hagop:

Speaking of checking sources?

First off, let RK disabuse you of the fallacious and incredibly stupid assertions you have levied about RugKazbah.com.

Frankly, you are full of shit. Period, end of discussion

Now then, about your rug and your puny "excuse" to negate our reportage.

Again you are up to your ears in brown stuff, sir.

RK doesn't believe for one second you still own it, chump. And your piss-poor "reason" for claiming you do is nothing but a lead balloon, sir. How about trying harder to convince us you still own it, buster?

But in the end face facts, hagop: Who owns it is immaterial to why we posted this on RugKazbah.com. This is nothing but a simplistic attempt on your part to discount what we wrote.

And even if the fact of "who" owns it is forgotten, remember,sir, this issue is your idea and way to obfuscate the real story. And that story, hagop, is the reality a rug like that is not worth $32,500 -- forget about $75,000 or $125,000.

This is the issue, hagop, and let's hear you or anyone else try to demonstrate the rug is not what we claim -- a furnishing carpet that has no art or history.

And afterall for $32,500/$75,000 or $125,000 any client should be getting both and not just some fluffy mid-19th century wool.

So throw all the insults and bullshit you want at RK's wall but note, sucker, none of that will stick.

So go try another tack if even you can.

Author: Hagop
email: h.manoyan@Att.net
Wed, Jun 17th, 2009 12:41:17 PM

Hello again hagop:

Speaking of checking sources?

First off, let RK disabuse you of the fallacious and incredibly stupid assertions you have levied about RugKazbah.com.

Frankly, you are full of shit. Period, end of discussion

Now then, about your rug and your puny "excuse" to negate our reportage.

Again you are up to your ears in brown stuff, sir.

RK doesn't believe for one second you still own it, chump. And your piss-poor "reason" for claiming you do is nothing but a lead balloon, sir. How about trying harder to convince us you still own it, buster?

But in the end face facts, hagop: Who owns it is immaterial to why we posted this on RugKazbah.com. This is nothing but a simplistic attempt on your part to discount what we wrote.

And even if the fact of "who" owns it is forgotten, remember,sir, this issue is your idea and way to obfuscate the real story. And that story, hagop, is the reality a rug like that is not worth $32,500 -- forget about $75,000 or $125,000.

This is the issue, hagop, and let's hear you or anyone else try to demonstrate the rug is not what we claim -- a furnishing carpet that has no art or history.

And afterall for $32,500/$75,000 or $125,000 any client should be getting both and not just some fluffy mid-19th century wool.

So throw all the insults and bullshit you want at RK's wall but note, sucker, none of that will stick.

So go try another tack if even you can.

-----------------

Listen and don't get excited.We all know that this site went dead and was buried by you because of the lack of traffic and comments.It was almost you posting and answering.You must have gotten bored and decided to start this again. I am not here to entertain you and answer your questions especially the ones about my business. I'll tell you one thing though.No buyer will pay $125000 for a rug and leave it with a dealer for five months.I understand that your idea is to get some traffic here and give this dead site some life but believe me my friend even I cannot help you.

Author: jc
email:
Wed, Jun 17th, 2009 11:02:33 AM

Hello hagop and welcome to RugKazbah.com:

We are glad to see you have taken our suggestion, made to you in an email, to write and "explain" your side of the story.

Obviously, RK knew you were the buyer of the rug and we are glad to have that out in the open. We did not wish to name names but now that you have admitted your role in this situation all the better.

The fact you still "have" the rug in your possession does not prove your position, nor more importantly does it negate ours.

So let's get into the matter, OK?

Why don't you explain for RugKazbah's readers exactly what parts of our "story" need checking? Surely you imply we are incorrect in what we wrote so why dont'cha tell us where we are wrong?

And by the way, hagop, just because you have the rug in your possession, if that in fact is the truth, does not mean you own it, now does it?

It would be possible for someone else to "own" it and have left it with you, right?

So instead of RK posing questions why don't you prove us wrong?

The floor is all yours, go ahead and give us your best shot...

We will also gladly debate the rug's merits, or lack of them, with you so please, if you are so sure this is a great rug and we are so wrong in our belief it is nothing but a piece of fluffy furniture, let's see if you can put up any defense to our position.

Author: Hagop
email:
Wed, Jun 17th, 2009 07:10:40 AM

Hello hagop and welcome to RugKazbah.com:

We are glad to see you have taken our suggestion, made to you in an email, to write and "explain" your side of the story.

Obviously, RK knew you were the buyer of the rug and we are glad to have that out in the open. We did not wish to name names but now that you have admitted your role in this situation all the better.

The fact you still "have" the rug in your possession does not prove your position, nor more importantly does it negate ours.

So let's get into the matter, OK?

Why don't you explain for RugKazbah's readers exactly what parts of our "story" need checking? Surely you imply we are incorrect in what we wrote so why dont'cha tell us where we are wrong?

And by the way, hagop, just because you have the rug in your possession, if that in fact is the truth, does not mean you own it, now does it?

It would be possible for someone else to "own" it and have left it with you, right?

So instead of RK posing questions why don't you prove us wrong?

The floor is all yours, go ahead and give us your best shot...

We will also gladly debate the rug's merits, or lack of them, with you so please, if you are so sure this is a great rug and we are so wrong in our belief it is nothing but a piece of fluffy furniture, let's see if you can put up any defense to our position.

-----------------------------

If you want to become a rug columnist you better check your story twice and the authenticity of the information you get before you write about it. I am the proud owner of the rug,still have it,love it and be happy to show it whoever wants to see it.

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