Home > Archive >The Lesghi-Star
email: jc@rugkazbah.com
Fri, Jul 5th, 2013 07:43:45 AM
Topic: The Lesghi-Star

There’s an old expression, “children should be seen and not heard”, which even if adapted to ‘fools should be seen and not heard’, unfortunately does not come close to describing RK’s view of the sand-box antics steev price and his band of rug-challenged cohorts dilly-dally at every day.

Why these know-littles and know-nothings continually act-out their fantasy belief anyone, other than complete novices like themselves, puts any credence in what they publish for public consumption is beyond us.

Over the last month, these cretins have been trying to ‘discuss’ the lesghi-star pattern found on many mid-later 19th century rugs.

The nonsense and pseudo-scholastic interpretations price and his peanut-gallery express would be funny were it not for considering anyone surfing the internet, who is curious about old/antique or historic Oriental Rugs, could very well end up in price’s website.

This is no joke.

RK knows well many people are becoming interested in historic carpets - their history and beauty are powerful aphrodisiacs for the eye and mind. However, clods and bores like those who post on price’s site – imagine, windle swann is the grand-old man of wisdom there – would surely turn-off any intelligent inquiring mind who happened to read any of their misguided musing on the subject.

Examples of this are bountiful, in fact, there is hardly anything else there that could be characterized differently.

RK could debunk and rebuke almost everything that appears there, but yessshhh, who has time for that?

Ok then let’s get to the meat here concerning the lesghi-star pattern and their flummoxed ideas.

While we agree this icon, the lesghi-star, is a later addition to the repertoire of Caucasian rug designs it does, apparently, have roots stretching back to the late 16th century, if not a bit before.

After one off price’s neophytes quoted dennis dodds’s theory it is derived from a geometric rotation of the Arabic letters for Allah, which is nothing other than another dumb idea from dodds (let’s not forget the mammoth errors he made in pitch to sell LACMA that rug and the egg that is all over his bearded countenance because of it), the assembled mini-minds went off on dodds’s tangent. Truly a patently erroneous one, at that.

As ludicrous as this was they then went even further down the garden path of idiocy when another mini-mind published the following photo of a Turkish Village rug:

The clowns on price’s site then began days of struggling with the age of that rug and the implications and connections its obvious lesghi-star carried.

Needless to say, it would be impossible to describe what transpired as adding anything of value to this issue and recounting a blow-by-blow account would be as interesting as eating a dirt-sandwich is tasty.

Perhaps the only thing worth noting is windle swann’s dumber than a rock statement about it: “The apparent pattern of fading of some of the reds similarly indicates the presence of fuchsine in Gantzhorn's #350. Although it is an unusual variation of the Lesghi star design, it is not, in my opinion, "safely pre-1850."

Whooaah there windle, open your peepers and close your mouth, dummy.

There is no way this rug is post-1850 and windle’s a fool for even thinking that, faded red or not, and an even bigger one for stating so in a public forum.

So much for the new board member of the textile museum’s intellectual rug capacity or the value of his experience after collecting old rugs for 30 years or more.

By the way, windle then continued trying to convince himself in public of his horribly incorrect age guesstimate, eventually squinching himself into a box even smaller than those containing the rug’s lesghi-stars.

While this rug is not as early as it might look to some eyes brighter than windle’s, it is pre-1800 and RK would date it circa 1750. It is an interesting accumulation of icons and patterns from earlier rugs and has one of, if not the, oldest fully developed lesghi-stars on any rug Rk has seen.

The derivation and origins of rug designs are a fascinating aspect of rug studies and RK has written often about our interest in this area.

There is no doubt anyone venturing into it must have a great command of the many types and the myriad periods of production.

Unfortunately, midget-brains and wanna-be rug experts, like windle and price=clown, can’t possibly say anything concrete or even interesting because of their intellectual deficiencies and their abysmal lack of comprehension derived from their supposed long time rug experience.

They prove this over and over again, ad infinitum.

That subject aside, here is the real reason RK has, once again, poked our pen at price and company:

This rug, which has been called proto-Holbein by one author, Gantzhorn who published it in his ‘survey’ (it is from the Vakiflar Museum in Turkey and also published in the Vakiflar book), could just as easily be called proto-lesghi.

Amazingly, one of price-clown’s ‘people’ posted it in another of their ‘discussions’ and not one of them made the connection to the still simmering struggle to figure out the derivation of the lesghi-star.

How much more proof do these fools need to convince them how pathetic their efforts to correctly interpret what is, let alone formulate anything new about old carpets, let alone historic ones?

Not only do they always miss the boat but, more often than not, end up falling into the drink and drowning in their own ineptness.

As one sage quipped: “Ignorance doesn’t talk, it swears.”. And regrettably, price=clown, windle swann and the rest of their circle would be far better off swearing off in private and not in public on the internet.

Author: jc
Fri, Jul 5th, 2013 07:43:45 AM

For those readers unfamiliar with the name fred solemani, the person who chose fit to write in and then fade like a cheap T shirt in a hot wash, let us fill you in.

Mr solemani formerly was a rug "dealer" in Los Angeles. In a few words, to say he was a failure would be kind.

He was saved by having the good fortune to have a father-in-law who made some millions and, out of concern for his daughter, gave fred a "job".

Now years after the father-in-law sold the business he continues to have pity on him, pays solemani's bills and allows him to live rent free, etc in his Beverly Hills mansion.

This allows Mr solemani to dabble in rug buying and pontificating, as his post demonstrates.

Clearly, he is equally a failure at those efforts as well.

By the way: In the past he also, when we stupidly let him, wasted RK's time by telling us how he was going to do this and that for us.

He never did anything other than blow hot air in our direction.

Nuff said about a dumbass loser.

Author: Fred Soleimani
email: aimgp@aol.com
Tue, Jul 2nd, 2013 07:21:48 PM

RK Replies:

Greetings and welcome to RugKazbah.com:

Your idea sounds interesting. How about some evidence to support it?

You are welcome to send us, by email to info@rugkazbah.com, any pictures or other photographic evidence you have and our webmaster will place them in your subsequent postings, should you wish to substantiate your "theory".

Happy Independence Day.

A day RK hopes our readers will take time to remember what this day is supposed to mean to, and for, all Americans.


The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within. He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands. He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.


I believe institutionally and through being exposed to deep cultures and philosophies- that the so called lesgi star is far from lesgi-or of the Caucuses! It is however a primordial reach by ancient cultures such as found on the Indian continent - and Representative of the big bang - or exploding star - " Mudras Gul" - or mother of all denoting the big bang.

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